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Doctor Walcott. Doctor Abbot has charge of international exchanges, Mr. Chairman, and he can explain this item to you.

Mr. Wood. Tell us about this item.

Doctor Abbot. Mr. Chairman, the international exchanges are something which were founded by Joseph Henry, the first Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution.

Under the conventions which have been entered into between this country and other countries, and under various acts of Congress which have carried out these conventions, the international exchange service is charged with the transfer of intelligence between this country and the countries abroad.

There are a large number of full sets of governmental publications which are allotted to different countries under these acts of Congress, by the direction of the Librarian of Congress, and that work of transfer is carried on by the international exchanges.

Then, too, as formerly, there is some portion of the exchange service which relates to the transfer of scientific intelligence from institutions of learning of this country to various countries abroad and from countries abroad to us.

The correspondence relating to this work of the transfer of governmental and other publications is also carried on by the International Exchange Service. So, taken altogether, it amounts to a very large business, of which the main expense, of course, is for salaries and for freight transportation.

The business is growing. In the first six months of the fiscal year 1924 the exchanges amounted to 15 per cent more than in the previous year during the same period, and I am informed this morning that for the month of January, 1924, the growth has at least kept pace with and even exceeded that of the first six months which I referred to a moment ago.

The growth seems to be general, in part including the growth in Government publications and in part the growth of private publications.

The Japanese earthquake, which destroyed a good many of the libraries in Japan, made a considerable amount of business for the International Exchange Service.

Of course, during the war the same thing happened in connection of the destruction of the Belgian and some French libraries. That made some increase in the business of the International Exchange Service which, however, is pretty well over now. But the Japanese disaster, in its effects is, of course, still with us.

Then, during the past year the exchange service with Russia, through a roundabout channel, it is true, was undertaken again. Not having any diplomatic representatives in Russia, we do business through the American Friends Service Committee, the State Department having informed us that they had no objection to our carrying on the exchanges through that committee, which offered to take up that work.

VALUE AND NATUEE OF EXCHANGES.

Mr. Wood. Tell us what the different exchanges amount to, as far as public information is concerned. Will you give us some concrete example showing what they are ?

Doctor Abbot. For example, all reports of the debates in Congress are sent over to other countries, and all of the Patent Office publications.

Mr. Wood. How much do the debates in Congress amount to, so far as the Bolshevists in Russia are concerned ?

Doctor Abbot. As far as Russia is concerned, we have not received from them lately very full information, although there was a gentleman here a while ago from a portion of Russia which we seldom hear of; that is, the trans-Caucasus. He was an engineer who represented the university in the city of Tashkent, and he wished particularly to have the exchanges accelerated and improved between us and his own city.

Mr. Wood. That might appeal to perhaps half a dozen or a dozen people in Russia, who would be very much interested in those things. But how much does it amount to, so far as the total benefit is concerned, in the exchange of those things between this country and Russia ?

Doctor Abbot. Speaking as an astronomer and physicist, I may say that in all previous times the works of the Russians in reference to those subjects has been of very high class. They have had some of the best men of science in Russia in the whole world.

Mr. Wood. When was that ?

Doctor Abbot. That was prior to the World War.

Mr. Wood. What are they doing now I

Doctor Abbot. I understand from this engineer whom I saw recentty, from Tashkent, that although conditions are not so easy in Russia now as they were formerly, yet they are going on with that sort of work.

Mr. Wood. My understanding is that the scientific gentlemen in Russia do not amount to much, so far as the Russian people are concerned, and that they kill them about as fast as they can get hold of them.

Doctor Abbot. Mr. Ravenel tells me that the museums have been preserved intact.

Mr. Ravenel. I have been informed to that effect by a Russian who is a teacher in Bryn Mawr, and I also got that information directly from one of our curators who has a very large correspondence with museums all over the world. Strange to say, the museums have been preserved intact. They have not been destroyed.

Mr. Wood. I am glad to know something has been preserved in Russia.

Doctor Abbot. That is also true, so Mr. Dorsey tells me, in regard to what was the Imperial Academy in Petrograd.

Mr. Wood. There is not much in the Russian business that appeals to me.

Doctor Abbot. However, that is only one of the countries of the world with which we are connected through these international exchanges.

Mr. Wood. I understand you mention that as one of the countries from which you get these international exchanges.

Doctor Abbot. I mention that as a reason for our doing a little more business.

Mr. Wood. What are these exchanges, for the most part ?

Doctor Abbot. About 70 per cent consists of Government publications. We send to other countries the record of our parliamentary-proceedings, Patent Office reports, and all other Government publications. They are sent to a certain number of depositaries which are designated, under the provisions of law, by the Librarian of Congress.

Mr. Wood. That is what makes up this item for international exchanges, so far as we are concerned ?

Doctor Abbot. A very large portion of it.

Mr. Wood. That is why I was inquiring about Russia. What I would like to know is, what is the practicability of this sort of thing, how much benefit are we deriving by reason of these exchanges, and how much benefit are we conferring on other countries ?

Doctor Abbot. I have here a letter from the director of the Belgian exchanges, in the course of which he says:

It is highly desirable that the exchange of scientific publications and of official documents become general among the nations, and that the advantages offered, with regard to the transmission, by the organization of exchange services, hold the attention of all persons interested.

Then, I have here also a letter just received from Poland, from the head librarian of the Polish Parliament. He says:

Thanks to the help of the Smithsonian Institution, the library of the Polish Diet and Senate was provided, during the whole year 1923, with the most valuable publications of the Government and the Congress of the United States of America. In December we received a series of the Statutes at Large and other important copies from the Polish Legation in Washington, also by your kind assistance. Most of the scientific institutes, universities, and libraries in Poland are profiting by the regular and constant service of the Smithsonian Institution, which exerts in this way its beneficent influence on intellectual life of the whole world.

I beg you therefore to accept our very sincerest thanks, and I take the liberty of recommending our library to your further care and assistance.

The exchange service is really a service of treaty between the United States and foreign countries, and it has been set up by various acts of Congress.

Mr. Wood. I understand that. I wonder if we exchange any agricultural documents with those people, or any scientific articles with reference to agriculture or mechanism.

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir. You speak of mechanism. The Patent Office reports are full of matter in regard to mechanical devices, and we exchange those reports in connection with the other Government publications, and we exchange articles and reports on agricultural subjects.

Mr. Wood. As far as the agricultural end of it is concerned, we apparently have not been doing very much good along that line, because they still cut their wheat with the sickle and the scythe.

Doctor Abbot. In Russia ?

Mr. Wood. Not only in Russia, but in Germany, France, Belgium, and other countries of Europe.

I traveled through those countries last year when they were harvesting their crops, and it was a rare exception when you saw them using a reaping machine, and when you did see such a machine it was one of the old drop range type. So our exchanges with those countries along that line do not seem to be doing them much good. I wondered whether these exchanges in connection with other subjects are doing those people any more good.

Doctor Abbot. About twelve years ago, in the course of my astronomical work, I was in Algeria, and during the harvest time I saw some of the Arabs threshing wheat with oxen's hoofs and blowing out the chaff with the wind. But I also saw my French neighbor winnowing his wheat with a machine. I did not see them using any reapers or binders except in a few instances.

Mr. Wood. I did not see a modern reaper or binder in France, Germany, Belgium, or Holland, and I was wondering how much the people in those countries were profiting by reason of the things they get from us through the international exchanges. I do not think they are doing much. They may be doing something for us. but we are not doing much for them, so far as their benefiting by our example is concerned.

Doctor Abbot. What worries us at present is the increase in our business, which, as I said, has amounted to 15 per cent in the first six months of this 3 T ear, and the decrease of our means for carrying on the exchanges.

Mr. Wood. Are you making some effort to find out what there is that is archaic in these exchanges and what there is that might be of some value, so far as its practicability is concerned ?

We are living in a practical age, not in a dream age or an idealistic age. We are appropriating money for things that we ought to appropriate for, which are really beneficial, and I would like to know if that applies to these international exchanges.

Doctor Abbot. As far as we are concerned, we act like a railroad, or like a freight office, or a steamship agency. We transmit what is sent to us to transmit, and we have no discretion in the matter.

Mr. Wood. Have you no discretion with reference to the things you should exchange ?

Doctor Abbot. The Librarian of Congress instructs us to send full sets of Government publications to this, that, or the other country in various parts of the world, and partial sets to this, that, or the other country in different parts of the world.

Mr. Wood. You are the distributer \

Doctor Abbot. We are the distributer; yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. And you are the receiver ?

Doctor Abbot. We receive things from foreign countries.

Mr. Wood. You must have some sort of an idea as to which of these things is worth while. I expect sometimes some ideas occur to you in reference to things that ought to be done that might be beneficial to our country and to the other countries, and also in reference to some things that might be dropped because they are of no benefit either to our country or to any other country. Do you do any of that kind of work in your office I

Doctor Abbot. We have relations with the international exchanges of other countries, and there was held not long ago a meeting in Paris in reference to this matter. Of course, we have no authorization to send a delegate to such a meeting, and the only way we hear about it is through a roundabout channel, but we heard that the exchange service of the United States was held up as a model to all countries as what an exchange service should be.

The headquarters of the International Exchange wService of the world sent out a while ago a long list of questions in relation to our views on exchange service, and we prepared a very full answer to

that, which we transmitted. I will be glad to let you have a copy •of that.

Mr. Wood. You might put that in the record. ' (The matter above referred to is as follows:)

Questionnaire Submitted to the International Exchange Service of the Smithsonian Institution by the Subcommittee on Bibliography op the Commission on Intellectual Cooperation op the League of Nations.

1. general organization.

1. What is the organization of your bureau (date of foundation, composition of the personnel, administrative statute, offices, budget)?

Organized in 1850. The personnel of the service consists of the following: Assistant secretary in charge of library and exchanges; chief clerk; correspondence clerk, stenographer, and typist; four clerks; three skilled laborers; three laborers.

The Smithsonian Institution, shortly after its foundation in 1846, organized a system for exchanging its publications with foreign scientific societies and libraries, and the use of this system was extended to the United States Government and to institutions in this country. The Congress of the United States passed a resolution in 1867 providing for the exchange of public documents with foreign governments through the Smithsonian exchange service.

The offices of the International Exchange Service are located on the ground floor of the Smithsonian Building. The service occupies 10 rooms and there is a storage room outside of the building for packing boxes.

Up to the year 1882 the Smithsonian Institution met from its own private funds the entire cost of conducting the exchange service. In that year the United States Congress appropriated $3,000 toward the support of the system of exchanges. From time to time since 1882 the amounts of governmental funds have been increased. The sum granted for the current fiscal year was $43,200.

2. What are the foreign bureaus of exchanges: (a) to which you make sendings; (b) from which you receive consignments?

A list of the foreign exchange bureaus, both to which the Institution forwards consignments and from which shipments are received, will be found on page 4 of the appended circular.

3. Do you send out the publications of your country as soon as they reach you or do you let them accumulate in order to make collective sendings, periodical (at fixed dates) or nonperiodical?

Packages received from domestic sources for distribution abroad are retained at the Institution until shipments are forwarded to the countries to which they are addressed. Consignments are dispatched by freight at fixed dates. To Great Britain and Germany shipments are made weekly; to France and Italy semimonthly, and to all other countries consignments are forwarded at intervals not exceeding one month. When a sufficient number of packages to fill a box have not accumulated for any particular country at the fixed date for shipment, the packages on hand are sent directly to their destinations by mail.

4. How do you distribute the publications which reach you from abroad: (a) Do you transmit them immediately to their destinations, or (b) do you wait until the publications addressed to a single consignee have accumulated before sending them to him, or finally (c) do you make the consignees call for them at your office?

Packages received from foreign countries for distribution in the United States are forwarded, as soon as they are recorded, directly to their destinations by mail, under the frank of the United States Government.

5. Can you give a statistical table for the year 1922 of the number of pamphlets sent abroad by your service or received by it?

It is not possible for the Institution to give a statement of the number of volumes and pamphlets forwarded through the service. You will find, however, on the first page of the inclosed exchange report a table giving the number and weight of the packages of different classes passing through the service, both sent and received, during the fiscal year ending June 30, 1922. The Institution formerly kept a detailed account of the number of packages transmitted to and from each country. The last table of that nature was published in the secretary's report for 1910, a copy of which is given below. Special attention should be called to the fact that in the statistics referred to above the figures represent packages and not publications. In many instances each package contained a number of publications.

INDEPENDENT OFFICES APPROPRIATION BILL, 1925.

INTERCHANGE OF PUBLICATIONS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER

COUNTRIES.

The statement which follows shows in detail the number of packages received for transmission through the International Exchange Service during the year ending June 30, 1910:

Country.

Abyssinia

Algeria

Angola

Antigua

Arabia

Argentina

Aust rift-Hungary

Azores

Bahamas

Barbados

Beira

Belgium

Bermudas

Bismarck Archipelago

Bolivia

Borneo

Brazil

British America

British Burma

British Central Africa

British East Africa

British Guiana

British Honduras

British New Guinea

Bulgaria

Canary Islands

Cape Colony

Ceylon "

Chile

China

Colombia

Costa Rica

Cuba

Curacao

Cyprus

Denmark

Dominica

Dutch Guiana

Ecuador

Egypt

Eritrea.

Falkland Islands

Fiji Islands

France

French Cochin China

French G uiana

German East Africa

Germany

Gibraltar

Gold Coast

Grenada

Great Britain and Ireland.

Greece

Greenland

Guadeloupe

Gautemala

Haiti

Hawaiian Islands

Honduras

Hongkong

Iceland

India

Italy

Jamaica

Japan

Java

Kongo Free State

Korea

Lagos

Liberia

Lourengo Marquez

Luxemburg

Packages.

325

633

2,253

2

63

85

15

Country.

Madeira

Malta

Martinique

Mauritius

Mexico

Montenegro

Montserrat

Morocco

Natal

Netherlands

Nevis

Newfoundland

New South Wales

New Zealand

Nicaragua

Norfolk Island

Northern Nigeria

Norway

Orange' River Colon}'...

Panama

Paraguay

Persia

Peru

Philippine Islands

Porto Kico

Portugal

Queensland

Reunion

Rhodesia

Rumania

Russia

St. Croix

St. Helena

St. Kitts

St. Lucia

St. Martin

St. Pierre and Miquelon

St. Thomas

St. Vincent

Salvador

Samoa

Santo Domingo

Sarawak

Senegal

Serbia

Siam

Sierra Leone

Society Islands

South Australia

Spain

Straits Settlements

Sudan

Sweden

Switzerland

Tahiti

Tasmania

Transvaal

Trinidad

Tripoli

Tunis

Turkey

Turks Islands

Uganda

U nited States

Uruguay

Venezuela

Victoria

Western Australia

Zanzibar

Total

Packages.

For. From.

34

1 99 13

78

,783

79

3

20

203

,276

13

152

,S96

,507

221

15

5

,190

115

128

156

45

,547

203

24

.889

,494

30

06

747

,836

5

4

23

13

11

16

14

6

169

18

19

4

5

,429

217

21

12

,021

,853

230

43

,255

,029

13

,285

,594

126

2

44

,580

21

1

,989

,971

,283

,618

,564

13

255 123

1 734 110

992 76

33 2,019

39 269

1

106

1,304

173,951 62

10 248

248

221,625

6. Would you be disposed to adopt a prescribed form, common to all the •exchange services, for the sendings, distributions, and requests for publications?

The Smithsonian Institution would be glad to give due consideration to the adoption of a prescribed form, common to all the exchange bureaus, for the sending, distribution, and requests for publications.

II OFFICIAL PUBLICATIONS.

7. Do the official publications of your country, which you send abroad, reach you regularly as soon as published, or irregularly and a long time after their appearance?

As a rule, copies of United States official publications reach the Institution for transmission abroad regularly and shortly after the date of publication. In some few instances, however, mainly in the case of bound congressional documents, the publications reach the Institution a considerable time after their appearance. That is due to the fact that the volumes are held until they can be bound in a special collected file of the documents of each Congress.

8. Do you send abroad all the official publications of your country? Yes.

9. What is the number of different official publications which you transmit to foreign countries, and what number of copies do you send to each bureau?

There are forwarded through the Smithsonian Institution to certain designated depositories in foreign countries 57 full sets of United States official documents and 38 partial sets. The full sets are made up of copies of all documents printed by either House of Congress, together with copies of each publication issued by any department, bureau, commission, or officer of the Government, except confidential matter. The partial sets are composed of documents specially selected by the Librarian of Congress for transmission to certain countries which do not require the full set. A list of the depositories of both full and partial sets will be found in the Exchange report referred to above.

10. Would the budget of your service permit you to publish (in conformity with article 3 of the convention of 1886) a list drawn up on the 1st of January, 1924, and completed each year, of the official publications of your country, indicating eventually by an asterisk those which enter into your consignments abroad?

The Smithsonian Institution prints a list of the publications included in each box of the full sets and forwards a copy to the foreign depositories at the time of shipment. The documents forming the full set are retained at the Institution until a sufficient number accumulate to fill a packing box, measuring 33 inches by 18 inches by 18 inches, and containing approximately 6 cubic feet. During the course of a year about four of these boxes are shipped abroad to each depository. Since this government exchange was first inaugurated there have been sent abroad to each depository 191 boxes. A copy of the printed list of the last box is attached hereto. This list would seem to comply with the stipulations of Article III of the Brussels Exchange Convention. It may be of interest in this connection to note that Box 191 contained 653 bound volumes and pamphlets, making the total number of publications in the 57 boxes bearing this number forwarded to the various foreign depositories, 37,221.

11. Do you keep an inventory on cards, by titles of the publications, of the pamphlets that reach you from abroad, so that you can immediately discover any omissions?

The returns for the govenmental documents sent to foreign depositories through the Smithsonian Institution are placed in the Library of Congress, the National Library of the United States. That library arranges the foreign publications in its collections and makes a card catalogue of them for reference purposes. Omissions in the series are ascertained from that catalogue and this Institution is requested from time to time to obtain copies of the missing documents.

12. Can you immediately inform the investigator where the copies of official publications from abroad are deposited in your country, and to what foreign libraries the copies of official publications of your country go?

Yes.

13. Is it incumbent upon you to complete upon request, through the operation of your service, the collections of official publications of your country made abroad through your intermediary, and the collections of foreign publications made in your country through the intermediary of your service?

Yes.

14. Does it appear to you to be desirable and practicable to make your bureau of exchanges the despository of a certain number of copies of the official publications of your country, in order to enable you to complete upon request the collections of these publications made in foreign countries through the intermediary of your service?

No. It would not be practicable to store in the Smithsonian building a certain number of copies of all United States governmental documents to complete the collections of those documents in foreign countries, on account of the space that would be required for such a collection after the lapse of a few years. Furthermore, it would not seem necessary for this Government to follow such a course, for the reason that there is definite legislation, as referred to above, for the printing and delivery to the Smithsonian Institution of copies of all official documents, which insures the receipt by the various foreign depositories of a complete set of the publications issued by this Government. The enaction of a similar law by each of the other Governments taking part in this international exchange would be very helpful, as the returns made to this country are in many instances far from complete, and it is necessary to constantly apply to those Governments for publications to fill gaps in the collections of our national library (the Library of Congress). It is noticed that in many cases foreign governments are unable to meet even the ordinary requests which are made in this connection. If such a law were universally adopted, there would likewise appear to be no need for those Governments to supply their exchange services with surplus copies of their publications.

15. Have you reminded the administrations of your country that it is to their interest to avail themselves of your intermediary in sending their official publications abroad (in conformity with article 2 of the convention of 1886)? Have the reminders had good results?

Since the inception of the international exchange service it has been the general practice of all of the departments and bureaus of the Government to use the S3 r stem of exchanges in the forwarding of their publications to foreign correspondents.

III. UNOFFICIAL SCIENTIFIC AND LITERARY PUBLICATIONS.

16. What is the number of learned bodies and literary, scientific, etc., societies of your country that utilize your service for their exchanges of publications with foreigners.

The number of learned bodies and scientific and literary organizations in the United States using the International Exchange Service in the transmission of their publications abroad, is approximately 200.

!7. Could you draw up a table, by countries, showing the number of scientific and literary publications which you receive from abroad.

No; because no record is kept of the number of individual publicatins passing throguh the service. The Smithsonian Institution keeps a record only of the number of packages passing through the service. A table showing the number of packages received from foreign countries could be drawn up. Such a statement for the year 1910 is given in one of the reports referred to above.

18. Would the budget of your service permit you to publish a general list of your correspovdents; that is to say, of the learned bodies and associations of your own and other countries which exchange their publications through your intermediary?

The present appropriation granted to the International Exchange Service for printing and binding is not sufficiently large to permit of the publishing of a list of its foreign and domestic correspondents. The Institution has in former years issued an international exchange list containing the names of governmental, scientific, and literary establishments and journals in foreign countries which make use of the Smithsonian system of exchanges in the transmission of their publications. The last list was issued in 1904, but the edition is now exhausted.

19. Would the budget of your service permit you to publish a list of the unofficial publications which your bureau could place at the disposal of the foreign bureaus; particularly a periodical bibliography of the publications of the learned bodies which would like to participate, through your intermediary, in the international exchanges?

No.

20. Are the unofficial scientific institutions and associations in your country aware of the advantages which your service offers them for the transmission of their publications abroad?

Yes.

IV. PROPOSED REFORMS.

21. What practical measures do you advocate to enable you to forward a larger number of publications, and to send them more rapidly?

As explained in a preceding paragraph, the Smithsonian Institution is taking all steps possible to dispatch consignments promptly to foreign countries. An effort is made to make shipments abroad at intervals not exceeding one month, in some instances shipments being made four times a month. There is, however, often great delay in the distribution of consignments after they reach some of the foreign exchange bureaus, which has caused many complaints from the correspondents in those countries. We have brought these conditions to the attention of some foreign governments in the hope that their exchange bureaus might be provided with sufficient funds to enable them to distribute packages immediately after they are received.

22. Does it appear to you to be necessary to proceed to a revision of the convention of 1886, or would it suffice to improve the working of the national bureaus by the extension and more strict application of that convention?

The Institution does not think that a revision of the Brussels Exchange Convention of 1886 is necessary. The various bureaus could be improved, however, by a more strict compliance with the terms of that convention.

23. Does it seem to you possible to obtain the franking privilege or at least a reduction of rates on sendings of publications: (a) In the interior of your country, (b) in the international postal traffic?

The Smithsonian exchange service has the use of the franking privilege in the distribution in the United States of packages received through the service from abroad. It is understood that a similar privilege is granted to several of the foreign exchange bureaus in the distribution of exchange packages to correspondents in their countries.

It would be most desirable to obtain an international frank for the use of the various official exchange bureaus. Such a privilege could probably be procured through the Universal Postal Union. It may be stated in this connection that there is an international franking privilege between the Governments of the United States and Canada, Cuba, Mexico, and Panama, and that packages sent to those countries by the Smithsonian Institution are forwarded to their destinations under frank, free of postage to the recipients.

24. Would you be disposed to allow the libraries of the League of Nations and of the International Labor Bureau to benefit by the exchange of publications, in the manner provided for by the Convention of 1886?

Both the library of the League of Nations and the library of the International Labor Bureau at Geneva already receive benefits from the International Exchange Service so far as this country is concerned. The library of the League of Nations receives a partial set of United States governmental documents as well as a copy of the daily issue of the Congressional Record. Many publications are forwarded to the library of the International Labor Bureau through the exchange service.

25. By what means could the exchange of unofficial publications be encouraged and facilitated?

There would seem to be no necessity for taking special steps to increase the number of unofficial publications sent to foreign countries by domestic establishments, as practically all scientific and literary organizations of importance in this country now make use of the service in the transmission of their publications abroad.

26. Would you be disposed to participate in a conference of the directors of the national bureaus, who would study the possibilities of developing and perfecting the international exchange of publications, official and unofficial?

The Institution would be disposed favorably, but would wish to learn further particulars of the conference before definitely agreeing to send a representative.

IISTDEPEXDEXT OFFICES APPROPRIATION BILL, 1925.

DOCUMENTS KECEIVED AND SENT ABROAD.

Mr. Wood. Have you a list of the things which } t ou do exchange with these countries ?

Doctor Abbot. Of course, a large part of the material that comes to us is repacked down there. We have this table showing the number and the weight of packages of different classes, as follows:

Mr. Wood. Have you any idea what those packages contain?

Doctor Abbot. You would know, as well as we, what the parliamentary documents would contain, and that is the largest single item. The documents of the various Government departments would be the reports of the departments, and that is the second largest item. The miscellaneous, scientific, and literary publications sent abroad would include, for instance, those for the rehabilitation of Japanese libraries destroyed by fire or earthquake.

Mr. Wood. I can see that there is some reason for keeping up some of this service in connection with literature, art, and things of that character. But we have a Consular Service which is supposed to be in close touch with all the business activities in these foreign countries. We have commercial attaches and commercial agents who are supposed to be advertising what we are manufacturing and what the business men in this country are doing, and it seems to me those people ought to be able to do this kind of work.

How much duplication is there in the work which your department does along this line and the things which other agents ot the Government are doing, which are of some practical use in the world ?

Doctor Abbot. I do not suppose there is any duplication, sir.

Mr. Dorsey. We do not send abroad any sort of trade publications.

Mr. Wood. What I am trying to find out is what you do exchange. Of course, you can send them the Congressional Record, which nobody ever reads over there or here. I do not know what else you are sending those people that is of any consequence, so far as the practical nature of the thing is concerned.

Doctor Abbot. As I remarked, we act as the transmitting agent.

Mr. Wood. But there ought to be some reason for having that transmitting agency, and if there is not any reason for it why should we not abolish this whole business ?

Mr. Simmers. You send as many as 125,000 packages of some departmental documents?

Doctor Abbot. Yes.

Mr. Summers. Will you tell us in detail what you send to these other countries ?

Doctor Abbott. In my own case, the Astrophysical Observatory published in 1900, and again in 1908, and again in 1913, and again in 1921, four separate volumes of its Annals. These are in great demand from scientific men abroad. I had a letter not very long ago, from one of the first astronomers in the world, Mr. Eddington, of England, saying he used our results he thought more than anybody else's in the world. All those publications of the Annals of the Astrophysical Observatory, so far as they went abroad, went through the exchange service. All of the Patent Office reports which have to be exchanged go through the exchange service.

Mr. Summers. But the document to which you first referred would be of great interest to a limited number of people. About how many of them do you send abroad ?

Doctor Abbot. Probably 600.

Mr. Summers. They are sent to scientific men, I presume?

Doctor Abbot. They would be sent to institutions and libraries, such as the British Museum, and the regular astronomical libraries. There are a great many of them sent to a regular selected list of men who might use them in their research work.

PATENT EXCHANGES.

Mr. Summers. You were telling us about the Patent Office.

Doctor Abbott. All patents of the United States have to be known abroad, and all patents of foreign countries have to be known here.

Mr. Wood. When that exchange is made, there is an appropriation for the Patent Office for doing that very thing, so there must be some duplication there.

Doctor Abbot. Those things go through our office.

Mr. Wood. By direction of the Patent Office ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. Are you sure of that?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir. We carry on all the correspondence with relation to that.

Mr. Summers. How many of those do you send out, and to whom do you send them ?

Doctor Abbot. I have here a list of the consignments of exchanges to foreign countries. To the Argentine there were sent 40 boxes; to Austria, 59

Mr. Summers (interposing). From the Patent Office ?

Doctor Abbot. No, sir. I could not give you at the present time the exact figures in reference to the Patent Office.

Mr. Summers. You gave us a very satisfactory answer with regard to the astronomical reports.

Doctor Abbot. I merely gave that as an illustration.

Mr. Summers. I wish you would give us another illustration and then we can judge a little better about the work.

Doctor Abbot. We can furnish you any information of that kiud you want, but I have not got it here with me. Shall I send it to you ?

Mr. Wood. I would like to find out about something you are doing worth while. Of course, I know you are doing some things that are worth while.

89499—24 17

I want to say that I think the Smithsonian Institution, as a whole, has been the most economical department Ave have had to deal with. But 1 expect you people down there get in a rut, and you had better get out of it. I think, in connection with this very matte]-, you are in a rut. You are doing a lot of things you have no business to do. and you had better be doing something else.

Doctor Abbot. At the present time we are acting under the direction of legislation passed by Congress.

Mr. Wood. But you are not mannikins down there. Your office is an agency of the Government, and we are appropriating money to carry it on. If you are doing anything in connection with this work that is worth while, from a practical standpoint. I wish you would tell us what it is.

Doctor Abbott. We are acting in this matter under the direction of the Librarian of Congress, who has directed us to send these things where in his judgment they should go.

Mr. Wood. Because of the fact that you are the official distributor and the official receiver of these things you must have some comparative knowledge with reference to what is worth while and what is not worth while.

Those are the things that make for good government and good administration, and if we can not depend upon the agencies of the Government in that direction I do not know who wc are going to depend on.

Doctor Abbott. If it will be satisfactory. I shall be very glad to write you a statement in regard to that.

Mr. Wood. I will be very glad to receive it.

Here is what is happening—and I am not saying this by way of any particular criticism of your administration, but it is in all of the various activities of the Government.

The Government is as progressive as business, and we ought to make our Government more progressive than any other government, so far as the application of business principles is concerned.

We ought to save money, and we are doing it. We are trying to do what we ought to do in reference to our citizenship in the world, but we ought not to do things just because we have been doing them for 100 years.

Mr. Carter. I would like to have one thing explained. What service does this bureau perform with reference to patent exchanges and what service does the Patent Office perform in connection with that same thing? Why is it necessary to have two bureaus undertaking the same work i

Doctor Abbot. Mr. Chairman, the Smithsonian Institution has built up a set of correspondents abroad. It has correspondents in all of the considerable countries of the world, and we are able, by these ramifications of our bureau, to send those things exactly where they should go in the most economical manner.

Mr. Carter. I wish you would explain the modus operandi of that and tell us how these things are sent and what work you do in connection with it.

Doctor Abbot. There comes down to us from each of the departments of the Government a lot of packages, and these packages are packed in suitable boxes at the exchange service.

Mr. Carter. What are the packages?

Doctor Abbot. They are packages of books, and all these books referred to in the table I have given you have gone 1 through our bureau and we have sent lots of copies to foreign countries. We pack those things in suitable boxes for transportation and send them to the coordinator of the second area in New York City, who arranges for the transportation abroad. They are sent to our agents in England, France, Germany, and elsewhere, and then they are distributed to the actual addresses in the different parts of those countries by our agents in each country.

Mr. Carter. Are they sent upon request?

Doctor Abbot. The treaties between the United States and foreign governments call for the exchange of these governmental publications, and acts of Congress have been passed in accordance with the treaties to carry out those conventions. That, of course, covers all of the Government publications.

Then, in regard to such matter as is sent as the result of the Japanese earthquake, to Japan, the different university libraries send their duplicates which they can spare, or books which they can donate to the Japanese Government, and we pack those and send them along.

Mr. Carter. I asked you a very simple question, to which we ought to be able to get a direct answer, and that is, whether these things are sent upon request or are sent without a request ?

Doctor Abbot. The treaty is a request.

Mr. Carter. I do not care anything about the treaty. What I want to know is in reference to the practical application of this proposition, and how you are doing it. I am assuming that you do it in accordance with law, but I want to know how you do it.

Doctor Abbot. In regard to publications, we do it upon the instruction

Mr. Carter (interposing). Do you do it on request or do you do it voluntarily ? Do you send those things to persons who you think should have them?

Doctor Abbot. If the Patent Office says that certain patents should be sent to a certain foreign library, they send those things to us addressed, and we repack them and send them to our agent, who sends them to the person or institution whom the Patent Office requests us to send them to.

Mr. Carter. Those are sent voluntarily, without a request?

Doctor Abbot. They are sent to us from the Patent Office.

Mr. Carter. Can you not answer that question directly? Are they sent by request or not ?

Doctor Abbot. Some of them are sent by request and some are not.

Mr. Wood. So far as the patents are concerned, you are simply a packing house down there. Why could not some expense be saved by having the Patent Office do their own packing and send those things to the other country ?

Doctor Abbot. The chief clerk tells me that we can send them cheaper.

Mr. Wood. I can not understand why, if you have no discretion, and if you have to send what the Patent Office sends down to you. If you can pack them and send them to the other countries, I do not understand why they do not do that themselves. I suppose they would have some sort of correlation with the patent authorities of other countries with reference to exchanges.

Doctor Abbot. Mr. Chairman, they would either send them by express, by freight, or by mail. Suppose they sent them by mail. If they send a package to a South American country by mail, it will be very apt to be treated like some packages we have sent by mail to Chile. They never got there. They go to the Chilean ports, and that is the last that is heard of them. We lately sent a package to our observatory near Calama, Chile, but they did not get it, though they got the wrapper emptied of contents.

Our distribution is sure. We have our agents there and they are natives of the country, and if we send packages to any part of the world, the things get there.

Mr. Wood. Have you ever taken any pains to find out what they do with these packages after they are delivered ?

Doctor Abbot. It is known to me that in a great many cases they read these things.

Mr. Wasox. And preserve them.

Doctor Abbot. And preserve them in the libraries, not only in this country, but in other countries.

Mr. Summers. I was going to say that that might be answered by citing what we do with the documents which we get here.

Doctor Abbot. You will find those things in the Library of Congress.

Mr. Summers. They go into all the great libraries of the world (

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir.

METHOD OF HANDLING PUBLICATIONS FOR SHIPPING ABROAD.

Mr. Carter. I am going to assume that you are complying with the law, and that you are doing good work. I assume that an institution which has been running so long is rendering some service.

But I am trying to get some real information. You have given a fair statement, perhaps, of what your bureau does. Can you tell us something of what the Patent Office does in connection with this exchange business, in regard to patents?

Doctor Walcott. I think, Mr. Chairman, there is a practical side to this. Take, for instance, the Patent Office. They make arrangements with foreign governments in the matter of the exchange of patents. The same sort of thing is done by the Geological Survey and the Bureau of Standards. The same situation exists in connection with other Government bureaus, both technical tmd scientific, such as the Bureau of Mines. They all have their particular publications and they are wanted abroad, and the publications of foreign governments are wanted here. They make arrangements by correspondence for these exchanges.

The bureaus which want those foreign publications here are the Geological Survey, the Bureau of Mines, the Bureau of Standards, and other Government bureaus of that kind. They know what the people want over there.

The Patent Office sends its material down to our office. At the same time there may be a package from the Geological Survey, from the Bureau of Mines, from the Bureau of Standards, or from somewhere else. They are all going to the same city abroad. If the Patent Office, the Bureau of Mines, the Bureau of Standards, and other bureaus of that kind sent their packages on separately,

it would cost very much more than it does when they are brought to a central point and packed together, put in boxes, and sent by freight.

I think it is a simple business proposition. I happen to know that there is a great demand abroad for all our publications, especially our technical publications. ■

We want, in this country, the technical publications of the Germans, the French, the Italians, and the English, and other countries, in regard to chemical matters, medical matters, and other things. We want to keep in touch with what they are doing over there, and also want to know what their possible mineral resources are, and we want other scientific and technical data of that kind.

That matter comes here in thousands and tens of thousands of publications. We have an agent in England, in France, and a representative in German}'. The publications exchanged are sent directly to the central agency and are distributed from there.

Mi-. Carter. Then your bureau acts as a sort of clearing house for foreign distribution for all the other bureasu ?

Doctor Walcott. For all bureaus of the Government, and not only for the bureaus of the Government, but also in connection with our universities.

Mr. Wood was asking about the character of publications that go out, and whether those publications are read and studied. We very often have requests to send a group of publications abroad as well as to send single publications.

Mr. Carter. As I understand it, these other offices and bureaus simply pack these things and send them to your bureau and you distribute them; that is, you distribute such as are distributed in foreign countries.

Doctor Walcott. Unless they are sent by mail; otherwise we do it.

Mr. Carter. Does the Patent Office itself do any of that distribution to foreign countries ?

Doctor Walcott. Not that I know of.

DISTRIBUTION OF PUBLICATIONS RECEIVED FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Mr. Carter. Something has been said about the distribution of documents that come from other countries. How are they distributed ? Are they distributed through the different bureaus here ?

Doctor Walcott. We get boxes of documents from abroad, and those boxes may contain packages for a dozen or 15 different Government bureaus or institutions. The packages that are for the bureaus or institutions in the city of Washington are distributed.

Mr. Carter. To the different bureaus %

Doctor Walcott. They are sent directly to them; that is, to their libraries or whoever should receive them.

Mr. Carter. All the distribution which your bureau has to do with is the foreign distribution %

Doctor Walcott. We send those packages abroad. The material that comes into this country comes in the same way.

Mr. Summers. It comes to you ?

Doctor Walcott. Yes.

Air. Carter. And you distribute that material to the different bureaus ?

Doctor Walcott. We distribute it in this country.

Mr. Wood. You have no discretion with reference to this matter?

Doctor W'alcott. We have not. If the Geological Survey, for instance, sends material to us we can not open it in order to determine what shall be sent abroad. We have no discretionary powers in regard to that.

Mr. Wood. I want to know whether or not we send this stuff out simply because we have been sending it out for a hundred years.

Doctor Walcott. Not at all. You were speaking a while ago about Russia. I had supposed that the director of the former Geological Survey of Russia was dead. But I had a letter from him about six months ago saying that he was alive and that he was in the library at the University of Petrograd, and that all of the smaller libraries were now scientific institutions, and that the men who had been working there would want certain publications that we had in regard to geological matters and mining matters, and a lot of those things were sent to those men there.

I would say this in regard to Russia, that the mining activity in Russia is very great. They are employing the best mining engineers they can get hold of. and they are sending them to Siberia, trying to develop the metal deposits in the Ural Mountains, and some of the literature which we have in this country is of use to them, and they want anything we have along that line. 1 think this is a very practical and valuable service.

INSUFFICIENCY OF APPROPRIATION.

Mr. Garter. How much of this appropriation is used for the purposes you have just described !

Doctor Abbot. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman asks how much of the appropriation is used. The business has increased so much this year that we found that with the appropriation of $43,000, which we got for 1924, we would not be able to go the end of the fiscal year without cutting off the service. We have been running the service on a basis of monthly sendings, heretofore, to all of these countries. But on account of this increase which we have had in our business, we now have to cut off some of the monthly service in order not to have a deficit at the end of the year, which would have amounted to about $2,000, based on the appropriation of last year.

This year we also had an appropriation for the bonus, amounting to $3,700, making a total of $4(5,700 appropriated for the exchange service for this present fiscal year.

But for the next fiscal year the Bureau of the Budget has allowed us only $40,000, which would be a cut of $6,700 under what was appropriated for the exchange service for the current year. The reclassification act has increased the salary list by something like $800. As I said, our business has increased by L5 per cent which, on $18,000 worth of freight alone, would be nearly $3,000.

The salaries having increased $800, and the business not being capable of being done as it was expected to be done with the present appropriation, within $2,000, the secretary of the institution wrote to the Bureau of the Budget and brought these facts to their attention, but no change was made.

Mr. Wood. There is a supplemental amount of $6,000 referred to. Does that come under this item? That is for an additional assistant secretary.

Doctor Abbot. That has nothing to do with this matter. As a matter of fact, it will be impossible to do the business we have with less than $50,000, on the basis on which we have been doing it during the last year.

Mr. Wood. Suppose you run over your appropriation and see if you can not cut out a lot of things that are not worth while.

purchaseJof books.

Mr. Carter. You have an item for the purchase of books. What is that ?

Mr. Dorsey. That is for city directories, and books of that kind. We do not purchase any books to send through the exchange.

Mr. Wood. You do not buy periodicals or things of that sort to send out %

Doctor Abbot. No, sir. We have to have the directories of various foreign cities, and also of the cities in our own country.

FREIGHT, ETC.

Mr. Wason. Your expenditures, in a word, which you have just been talking about under this item are for freight and similar items, and for the salary roll of your employees who do the work of sending, receiving, and distributing here in your office %

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir; those are the main items.

Mr. Wason. I notice your appropriation was $50,000 for 1921 and 1922, and for this year the estimate was $46,700, and you say the increase in your business for the current year has been 15 per cent.

Doctor Abbot. That is in the first six months the increase was 15 per cent. I was told this morning that the increase for January was greater than that. So the increase this year will be at least 15 per cent.

Mr. Wasox. Have you any more favorable rates for cartage now than you had in 1922 ?

Doctor Abbot. The ocean freight rates have been lowered to a small extent; in a few countries there has been a decrease during the last year, but in most countries the rates remain unchanged.

But the cost of boxes has very materially increased. The boxes are costing us 17 per cent more than they did. The cost of transmission in this country has not materially changed.

At the suggestion of the Bureau of the Budget, we made a change from our New York agent, the firm of Davies, Turner & Co., to the Government coordinator of the second area. We made that change last summer. But that has not made any appreciable difference in the cost. The expenso is really mounting up as the appropriation is going down.

TRANSPORTATION OF THINGS.

Mr. Wood. I notice one of the principal items for this exchange work is for the transportation of things. Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. That amounts to $11,400.

Doctor Abbot. That figure was put there in order to make the Budget balance. The amount for transportation will really be nearly 119,000 for this year, but we had to make the Budget balance.

Mr. Wood. That is why I said if you would exercise some judgment and some supervision in this matter you would get along better. They are sending down so many copies of these different publications, whether they are needed or not needed and you spend money which it is not necessary to spend. You people ought to get in some sort of relation with the folks over there and find out how much they can use, and not simply send over a cartload of stuff just because they send the same amount of stuff to you. If you would do that you might reduce the amount b} T $5,000.

I expect half, or even four-fifths of this stuff that you send over there is simply junk when it goes over, just as four-fifths of the stuff that comes here is junk.

I know if the Government would save the money that it spends on junk sent to each Congressman, it would save several millions of dollars a year.

Doctor Abbot. This material is sent abroad to keep sets of publications in libraries complete.

If you should go to the Congressional Library and ask them for a certain publication which they have and then found that because of the economical tastes of somebody in England that they had now cut off certain of those publications, including just the one you wanted, it would be quite a blow to you, I think.

NUMBER OF COPIES OF PUBLICATIONS RECEIVED FROM AND SENT TO FOREIGN

COUNTRIES.

Mr. Wood. Just take this for illustration. Suppose the} 7, are sending you some scientific reports. Do they send you just one copy of that report for the Congressional Library here?

Doctor Abbot. The fact is that they will probably need more than one copy here; they would perhaps need two or three.

Mr. Wood. How many do they send ?

Doctor Abbot. Then there would very likely be one required for the Navy Department, for the United States Naval Observatory, and we very likely would want one ourselves, and there might be one needed in some other scientific library of the Government. Then the different universities and observatories all over the country would each need one in order to fill the essential needs of those who consult those things continually.

Mr. Wood. This Government is getting out a census report consisting of 10 or 12 volumes. That is very important and very necessary for a lot of purposes. But that report is distributed at random over this country and is costing the Government millions of dollars, and in a majority of cases it is thrown on the scrap pile as soon as it is received.

Mr. Carter. It is treated just like the fanners' bulletins, which are sent out by the thousands.

Mr. W'ood. Certainly. The farmers' bulletins are sent out all over the country, and in most cases, except where they are requested, they are treated as a nuisance. Every day our mail is filled with stuff

sent from the Government departments which we simply throw in the wastebasket without even looking at it. There ought to be some central source of supply where you could get that information. If it is not worth applying for, it is not worth while having at all.

Doctor Walcott. I think you should make a distinction between the sending of these full publications of the Government to selected libraries, selected by the Librarian of Congress, to libraries and institutions abroad, and the sending out by Congressmen of a lot of stuff to a lot of people.

Mr. Wood. I think the Librarian of Congress ought to exercise some judgment in connection with that matter.

Doctor Abbot. I feel sure that you underestimate the value of these continued sets of publications to the various universities and libraries.

Mr. Wood. Possibly I do. I expect somebody at some time, within the course of five or six years, looks at it, and he ought to be able to go to the Library of Congress and find the information he wants.

Doctor Abbot. Suppose you were in Prague, in Bohemia, and you wished to find certain information, but instead of finding it in the Library of Prague, you had to write to the Librarian of Congress and wait three or four months before you got the information.

Mr. Wood. It seems to me this is comparable to 'a situation where a man would want to be in a position to have an automobile standing on every street corner whenever he wants one. It is a pretty expensive proposition. The Government can not do all that kind of thing.

Another thing we are trying to do is to save a little money for the people.

Mr. Carter. I think you offered a very valuable suggestion with reference to finding out what the desire and need for these things are before they are distributed. What effort do you make in that regard, Doctor, to find out whether these documents are needed before you send them to the parties to whom they are sent?

Doctor Abbot. Possibly you did not hear me say that the discretion does not rest with us. We are instructed by the Congress of the United States to do as the Librarian of Congress instructs us to do in regard to the matter. We are a forwarding agency which forward what it is instructed to forward from the Librarian of Congress to these parties whom he selects.

Mr. Wason. I understand the doctor to say that he also transmits, for the Patent Office, what they send to be transmitted to other countries.

Doctor Abbot. That is one of the offices of the Government of the United States whose publications we transmit.

Mr. Wason. Which is approved by the librarian ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir; the report or any publication of the commissioner made to the Congress would be included in the full set of parliamentary publications which we distribute at the direction of the Librarian of Congress. The patent specifications we send abroad directly for the Patent Office.

Mr. Summers. That is under the treaty ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir; any of their reports to Congress are included under the treaty.

Mr. Wason. Then you have no discretion; you are simply a forwarding agency, acting just like a freight train. When the freight is put on the platform the tram conies along and picks it up. You load this stuff in boxes and send it along to its destination ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir: and we are doing that to the best of our ability.

Mr. Summers. The dissemination of scientific knowledge is certainly of primary importance for the advancement of the world, including this country, and it seems to me this is a very valuable service.

Doctor Abbot. It has always been very highly appreciated.

Mr. Summers. The only thing we can reasonably ask would be that it be conducted as economically as possible.

Doctor Abbot. I <l<> not know how we are going to conduct it for another year with the appropriation which is proposed. It seems to me that we will be at our wits' cuds to know how to do it, unless the appropriation is made at least as great as it was made last year, when it was $43,000. plus the $3,700 to cover the bonus. Now they propose to cut us to $40,000, and it is very difficult to see how the work is going to be done.

Mr. Summers. Frequently, in going through the departments and looking after different matters, I have observed employees who are not doing the work that they might be doing, as the employees in my office do. I have seen four, five, or six of them in the departments holding little consultations, which seemed to be wholly personal and disconnected with any work they should be doing.

In one office the other day I think I counted six or seven, while I was waiting for a few minutes, who quit their work entirely and were engaged on matters that were wholly foreign to what they had in hand.

I have always wondered if the chief of an office, whoever lie might be, should not have these people understand the value of time and get a little more continuous service from them. Can anything be done in your bureau along that line?

Doctor Abbot. I think our people are as diligent as the natural, ordinary run of human kind are.

Mr. Wood. The trouble with that sort of thing is that you can never locate it by questioning any chiefs of bureaus when they appear before us.

A ME B IC A N KT H X OLO<; V.

Mr. Wood. The next item is:

For continuing ethnological researches among the American Indians and the natives of Hawaii, including the excavation and preservation of archaeologic remains under the direction of the Smithsonian Institution.

And so forth.

Your current appropriation for this purpose is $44,000, and your estimate for 1925 is $57,160. Last year, Doctor, through your enticing ways, you inveigled us into giving you $4,000 with which to complete some work. Has that work been done?

Doctor Fewkes. Not, quite, sir.

Mr. Wood. What is the matter with it now?

ACTIVITIES IN PRESERVATION OF MOUNDS, ETC.

Doctor Fewkes. If you will allow me, I would like to make a few remarks of a general nature on that subject.

Mr. Wood. You may proceed.

Doctor Fewkes. Due, I think, to the increase of the "See America first" idea and also due to the improvement in the automobile, there is a very lively interest on the part of the American people to see more of the history of this country. Now, we have monuments left from the days of the earliest American Indians which illustrate this point in history, and we have a National Park Service which is stimulating the same sort of interest, but many of those monuments are in such a condition that they can not see much of them if they go there for the purpose.

There is hardly a day that passes, or certainly not two days, that I do not get a letter from somebody asking me if I can not come down to Tennessee, to Alabama, or to Florida, or some other State, and help them out in opening up some of their antiquities. There is in the South a lively interest in the subject. Of course, I have to turn all of them down because of the lack of money. However, there is one proposition that is so practical and is so feasible that I can do work upon it with the minimum amount of expense. That is the work at Mesa Yerde, Colo. I asked for the $4,000 for that purpose last year, and that is what I want funds for this time. Of course, I can not work at Mesa Verde all the time on account of the lack of water. For that reason, our work there was somewhat hampered. We want to hook on with the amount that will come in this year's appropriation with the amount for next year. I can begin work there in May and continue until July. I can then continue on from July under whatever appropriation that you, in your wisdom, may see fit to' give me. If it is small, the work will be small, and if it is large, I can do more. In that way, we will have work going on there that will supplement past work, and it will not be sporadic work. At Mesa Verde we have a monument that thousands of people are going to see, and I want to make it worthy of their seeing it.

Mr. Wood. How many of those monuments have you developed already ?

Doctor Fewkes. In 1922 there were five.

Mr. Wood. You propose to keep on developing whatever monuments you find all over the country, or is it the purpose to simply develop a few of them ?

Doctor Fewkes. I am developing types. These monuments are not all alike, but they are of different types. I will tell you what I have developed. First, perhaps, I should give you some idea of how much work we have to do on them. Practical men who go out there are surprised that I can do as much as I do on these monuments. This [indicating] represents a mound as it was when I took hold of it. They go in and cut off some sage brush, and this [indicating] shows what we have to work on, practically. This is developed for the archaeologists. This [indicating] represents the monument after it is dug out.

Mr. Wood. Is this [indicating] the real thing, or does it represent your anticipation '{

Doctor Fewkes. That [indicating] is what I found, and if you will look at the next page you will see my interpretation of it

Mr. Wood. You have put the building on afterwards ?

Doctor Fewkes. No, sir; I did not do that, but I leave the skyline just as it was. That [indicating] is what I thought it was originally. These represent it after the restoration and before the restoration. The other one shows it in exactly the way I found it. I not only dug up the mounds and found these things underground, but I have put upon them cement and other material with which to preserve them. I am doing this work for future generations as well as for the present, and sometimes the rains are pretty heavy in Colorado.

Mr. Wood. What would happen to those things after they were taken up and exposed to rains, freezes, snows, etc. ? What would happen to those monuments if they were exposed to the weather ?

Doctor Fewkes. That is what I am telling you about now. I am putting cement on them to prevent the rains from washing them away. That involves a good deal of expense, because cement is prett} T high out there. It costs us $1 to get 100 pounds of cement up from the valley. We use a mixture of four parts sand to one part cement, and the protection of a ruin like that requires about 20 tons.

Mr. Wood. You say it costs SI per 100 pounds?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir. That is because we have to get it up the hill. Formerly it was carried up by animals, I have been up there in every way. I have gone up there on foot, on horseback, in wagon, and by automobile. I hope to be able to go up in an airplane.

Mr. Wason. The cement that you use out there for that purpose costs $20 per ton ?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir; it also costs $1 per bag to get it up on the hill.

Mr. Wason. You purchase the cement and have it delivered at $1 per bag?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir (purchase price, $1; transportation, $1 =$2); when I can get it at tnat price. I try to make this money go as far as I can. There is one addition to that ruin [Far View House], and that is the Pipe Shrine House. It is called the Pipe Shrine House because I found 15 pipes in one room. Of course, I knew that those people smoked. Probably two or three people out of every dozen that you find smoke, but I never found a pipe before at this place.

Mr. Summers. Did you find any evidence of what they smoked ?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir; I think they smoked a kind of kilikinick, or a mixture of native tobacco, willow leaves, and some other herbs. Smoking with them was a ceremonial proposition, and not a secular act. They smoked for the purpose of bringing rain, the cloud of smoke representing a rain cloud. When they smoked that mixture, by some process of sympathetic magic, the rain fell on the fields. I had never found a pipe before that.

Mr. Wason. Do you suppose they ever bad any drought there before they used those pipes ?

Doctor Fewkes. That is a dry country.

Mr. Wood. You have only $44,000 this year, and you are asking $57,160.

Doctor Fewkes. That includes the reclassification of salaries. General Lord allowed me $2,000 or more for next year than the amount I had. The salary reclassification adds some $5,000, bringing us up to $57,160. Our work will require that amount.

Mr. Wood. The reclassification brings it up to this amount of $57,160?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. When will you get this work done ?

Doctor Fewkes. As long as the people encourage me to go on, I want to, go on.

Mr. Wood. I may be mistaken, but I thought you told us last year that if we gave you that increase of $4,000 you would finish up the whole job.

Doctor Fewkes. I may have said that. This is a proposition that should go on. This is only one item in our work, and we are carrying on other investigations. For instance, in the case of Florida, a gentleman came up and made me a proposition to pay the expense of some work down there, and we are opening up something for those Florida visitors to see. They go down there and there is nothing for them to do in those big cities like Palm Beach but drive around, and the more energetic among them go fishing. Now, we have been in Florida, and there are many things for people to see down there in the line of the early history of Florida. What I am trying to do down there is to open them up.

Mr. Carter. Did you state how many of these mounds you have opened up ?

Doctor Fewkes. There are about a dozen of them. I began away back in 1907. The act of Congress covering the reservation of the Mesa Verde was in 1907 or 1906. and I started in with an appropriation of $2,000 in 1908. Then in 1910, 1915, and 1916 we continued the work. In 1917 and 1918 we could not get money for that particular purpose. Then it was continued in 1920, 1921, and 1922.

Mr. Carter. Your development has not been confined to Mesa Verde, has it ?

Doctor Fewkes. No, sir; we have had men in Tennessee. Of course, the most striking development, perhaps, is at Mesa Verde. I wanted to make a good impression upon you gentlemen, and I have taken up the most interesting subjects first. We have been doing some fine work down in Tennessee, and the work done there last year is printed in this publication. All that we do is recorded in this publication.

Mr. Wood. Have you ever developed any of the work of the mound builders in Indiana or Illinois ?

Doctor Fewkes. We have done that in Tennessee. We did that last year in Tennessee on the Cumberland River and Harpeth River, and only yesterday we had a letter from a gentleman in Alabama who is constructing a railroad that runs across some great mounds. He wants us to come down and help out with them.

Mr. Carter. How many more have you in contemplation to open up ?

Doctor Fewkes. Do you mean all over the United States, or at Mesa Verde ?

Mr. Carter. I mean in the United States.

Doctor Fewkes. I could not count them. I should say that it will take me all the rest of my life trying to do it. The exact number I do not think any man except a wizard could tell.

PRESERVATION OF REMAINS OF INDIAN" FOUND AT MESA \ ERDE.

Mr. Wood. What Mr. Carter wants to know is what you have in prospect. Do you have any more in mind that von propose to open up?

CONTEMPLATED DE\ ELOPMENTB.

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir: I have one at Mesa Verde, and it is a big one. It is in the form ot a large pueblo that would accommodate perhaps 800 or 1,000 people. 1 have not named it yet, but it is near this other mound. It will cost, I should say. about $5,000 to open it up. However, I do not want to be in a hurry to open them up. 1 want to take time so that I can get all of the relationships.

Mr. Wood. 1 lave you found any remains of those people out there ?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir; and I have a new method of preserving their lemains We used to take those skeletons that we found in cemeteries and bring them back and put them in mahogany cases so the people could look at them. We have inaugurated a method of preserving the That skeleton [indicating] lias ne

been lifted out.

Mr. Wooo. Where did yon find them?

Doctor Fewkes. In the cemeteries.

Mr. Wood. How were they preserved?

Doctor Fewkes. There is no preservation at all; they are buried and covered v ith earth. That skeleton has never been lifted out of the ground. Their notion was that the spirit of the d< ad had to have food, so they put food in jars. We built around it. and then on the top we put netting. The skeleton i I so as to I eep the w

out when it rains.

Mr. Wood. Have you any idea how long it has been there?

Doctor Fewkes. 1 thirds since about 1300. I do not think any of them arc as old as the beginning of the Christian era. For the tourist this is one of the most interesting exhibit;-. I remember an old lady whom 1 was showing about down there. There were 20 people around, and 1 found one old lady who was lagging behind. She was calling to the people to come to see this. 1 could not talk to the people when that took place, and the people went over to that place to see it. One of them said. "What a horrid exhibition," but I noticed that she was the last one to leave it. She wanted to enjoy the horrors as long as possible.

Mr. Carter. Did the characteristics of this skeleton afford you sufficient information to enable you to determine whether it was the remains of an aboriginal American ?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir. That is the job of another man in the Smithsonian. We have a special man who studies skulls and skeletons of all kinds. He is a member of the Smithsonian staff, and he is one of the most prominent men in that kind of work in the world. His reputation is such that I am glad to leave those questions to him.

Mr. Summers. What is unique, interesting, or instructive about that particular skeleton that would distinguish it from any other skeleton ]

Doctor Fewkes. In that particular skeleton you have the dead lying just as he was placed there. You get his orientation, east and west, and there you nave the story of the burial custom of a people who lived 800 years ago.

Mr. Summers. What is buried with them ?

Doctor Fewkes. A bowl with food in it. Sometimes there are two or three bowls. They are perforated to let the spirit out. I called the attention of an Indian once to the fact that the food remained after death and that, therefore, the spirit had gone; but the Indian said, " Oh, no; the coyotes eat the food; but the spirit of the food is eaten by the spirit of the man in order to sustain him to reach the happy hunting grounds."

Mr. Summers. How do you know that he was not eating his porridge from that bowl and died suddenly, instead of having been placed there as a part of a ceremonial custom ?

Doctor Fewkes. That is a question, of course.

Mr. Summers. If that was a well-known custom of the early Indians, or a burial ceremonial observed by them, then I do not see that there is anything unusual about this.

Mr. Carter. Except that it might serve to connect them with the Indians of to-day.

Mr. Wood. I suppose it has historical importance.

Doctor Fewkes. The tourists do not see the Indian as he was buried, and this is new evidence which many people will see. There were something like 4.000, probably, who saw that last year; 4,000 more people in the United States saw how an Indian was buried. That same 4,000 people in wandering through the museum would see the skulls and skeletons in an unnatural condition.

Mr. Wood. Do you think that the people of the period represented by this skeleton were the ancestors of our present Indians ?

Doctor Fewkes. There is no doubt about it in the world.

Mr. Carter. The finding of food with the remains served, at least, to connect the burial custom of Indians at that time with their burial customs since the time covered by written history ?

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. It is probable that in those days they had some idea of building in a substantial way. The things that you have unearthed there show what they were capable of doing, but evidently at some later period they ceased to build in that way and lived in tepees or in the open.

Doctor Fewkes. That is one of the results of our work out there. We are showing that those people were good stonemasons.

Mr. Carter. A great many Indians in that section of the country still live in the same character of houses, or pueblos.

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir; they live in the same kind of houses, except that they can not make as good a wall as the older people could.

Mr. Wood. What happened to them ? It would seem that they have degenerated instead of improving with the passing years.

Doctor Fewkes. Yes, sir; the} 7 degenerated when they moved away, or when they migrated into better places for farming, along streams of water. Their survivors, such as we see now, are the modern Pueblos.

INTERNATIONAL CATALOGUE OF SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.

Mr. Wood. The next item is:

For the cooperation of the United States in the work of the International Catalogue of Scientific Literature, including the preparation of a classified index catalogue of American scientific publications for incorporation in the international catalogue, clerk hire, purchase of necessary books and periodicals, and other necessary incidental expenses, $8,861.66.

Your current appropriation for this purpose is $7,500.

Mr. Gunnell. Our estimate is the same as the appropriation for the current fiscal year, and it is the same as it has been for a great many years. The only change is due to the change that the reclassification law makes.

Mr. Wood. What do you do under this appropriation?

Mr. Gunnell. I will go hack into the history of it: Prior to 1900 there was no method by which people of one nation could know what the people of the other nations were doing in scientific matters, and it became an urgent matter to have an international catalogue of scientific literature. The Royal Society of London called attention to that need. Attention had been called to it previously by Professor Henry, the first secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, but the plans could not then be carried out. Finally, in 1900, the Royal Society held a convention participated in by all of the principal nations of the world and by all of the principal scientific societies in the worl 1 at London, which resulted in indexing and classifying scientific literature and publishing the International Catalogue of Scientific Literature. It was begun in 1900 and was carried up to 1914.

When the war came on, for many reasons with which you are perfectly familiar, this publication was stopped. Since that time the publication has not been resumed, but the organizations all over the world, consisting of 32 regional bureaus, mostly exist at the present time, and these bureaus are functioning so far as collecting and indexing their own publications are concerned. They are holding the records until such time as the publication may be resumed. There is actually no publication going on now. This bureau here at the Smithsonian Institution collects all of the scientific publications in this country, indexes them, and keeps a record of them. The classification work is not done, because it is probable that there will be new methods of classification established. Therefore, each year we save a certain amount of money that is not used, and that goes back into the Treasury. That is money that would ordinarily be used for the classification work.

Mr. Wood. Are those catalogues sold %

Mr. Gunnell. They are sold. The international catalogue, consisting of 17 annual volumes, is puolished in London and is sold at the cost of publication. There was no profit made and there was no intention of making any profit. The subscription price, which was $85 for the 17 annual volumes, simply covers the cost of printing the publication. They were subscribed for by the big libraries and scientific institutions all over the world. Each Government pays the cost of maintaining its own bureau. That is what this appropriation is for.

Mr. Wood. You furnish the data for the publication so far as we are concerned ?

Mr. Gunnell. Yes, sir; we furnish the data so far as we are concerned; and in normal times we sent over about 30,000 reference cards, which were supposed to entirely cover the references needed to find what is contained in the scientific publications of the United States for the current year.

Mr. Wood. How many sets of this publication did we get in this country ?

Mr. Gunnell. At the time the publication started, about 75.

Mr. Wood. You say that the publication has stopped altogether?

Mr. Gunnell. The publication has stopped. For instance, Italy made a lump-sum appropriation at a time when the lire was about three times as much as it is now, and the French did the same thing. They made a lump-sum appropriation to pay for these books at a time when the franc was worth 20 cents, but now it is worth something like 7 cents. Until there is some normal exchange rate, or until international affairs become somewhere near normal, it will be practically impossible for those countries to pay the equivalent of $85 a year for each subscription.

Mr. Wood. What are we doing, or why ; should we make an appropriation for the purpose?

Mr. Gunnell. We are making the appropriation in order to keep the records of these same 500 publications ready to be used when they are called for, or when the publication is resumed.

Mr. Wood. What is the probability of there ever being a republication of them ? , ....

Mr. Gunnell. You are able to answer that better than I am. It will be when financial conditions or the rates of exchange are somewhere near normal.

Mr. Wood. How many nations were parties to this arrangement ?

Mr. Gunnell. Thirty-three.

Mr. Wood. Will all of them come in again ?

Mr. Gunnell. No, sir; we do not expect Russia and Germany to be normal in our time; but several of the great countries, such as France, Italy, and Great Britain, when they get past some of their financial difficulties, will come in and we can resume the publication.

Mr. Wood. Has it taken all of this money to keep up that data?

Mr. Gunnell. No, sir; as I said, a certain amount of it, which was used for classifying the publications, has been going back into the Treasury each year. There are four clerks employed, as you will see by the table.

Mr. Wood. I think there are five.

Mr. Gunnell. There is one just for a month. There are four regular employees.

Mr. Wood. How many years have passed since this publication was made ?

Mr. Gunnell. It was published in 1915.

Mr. Wood. It has been about nine years since the publication was made \

Mr. Gunnell. If it is to be resumed, of course, these records are absolutely necessary, because they would cost ten times as much, and you would not get them accurately if we had to go back and cover a period of 10 years. It is like a legal digest.

89499—24 38

Mr. Wood. Perhaps when we begin .again, there will be another

hiatus.

Mr. Gunnell. It is an enterprise in which we will necessarily take part.

Mr. Wood. You think it is necessary to continue tliis^

Mr. Gunnell. I do; but it is for you to decide.

Doctor Walcott. Those cards there are valuable for anyone who wishes to consult them. If anyone who lives over here wishes literature in regard to any one subject the catalogue can be sent to him. It is simply a matter of typing them off.

We are doing that now. It is not the best way of doing it, but the material is still available.

Mr. Summers. It is available to anyone in America who has occasion to use it?

Doctor Walcott. Yes: or to any foreigner, for that matter.

ASTROPHYSICAL OBSERVATORY.

Mr. Wood. The next item is:

For maintenance of the Astrophysieal Observatory, under the direction of the Smithsonian Institution, including assist ants, purchase of necessary books and periodicals, apparatus, making necessary observations in high altitudes, repairs, and alterations of buildings, and miscellaneous expenses, $21,580.

Your current appropriation for this purpose is $15,500. You are asking quite an addition to this item.

Doctor Abbot. That comes from the reclassification.

Mr. Wood. Does all of that result from the reclassification ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir; except as to S900 for repairing a building that is falling down.

Mr. Wood. The addition is about $6,000.

Doctor Abbot. That shows you how for a long time past the members of the staff of the Astrophysieal Observatory have been carrying part of the expense of it. We have there one man who is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and who has been with us for 29 years. He was an honor graduate, and the highest pay he has ever received here, including bonus, is about $2,300 a year. We have another man who was a graduate of the University of Wisconsin, a Phi Beta Kappa man, and a master of science. He has been with us since 1909, and the highest salary he has ever received from the Astrophysieal Observatory, plus the bonus, is $2,040.

I have been the director of the observatory for a great many years, and the highest salary I ever got, coming from the observatory, was $3,000 a year. When the Reclassification Board came to those positions and compared them with salaries at the Bureau of Standards and at other places around here, they immediately saw that our people had been donating $1,000 a year apiece or more toward the running of this observatory. Those two gentlemen I mentioned are married men with families; and you gentlemen who live in Washington well know how far $2,000 or $2,300 will go toward supporting a family here, and how much would be left with which to procure those comforts and pleasures which people like to have in this life. Now we hope you will be able to deal more justly with the members of the staff.

Mr. Wood. Do those men devote all of their time to this service ?

Doctor Abbot. Yes, sir; all of their time, just as other Government employees do. In fact, they devote a great deal more time to the service than many other Government employees do. For example, Mr. Aldrich, who has been out with me on Mount Wilson, not only has put in 8 hours' service, but sometimes worked all night long at the observatory out there; he is at present carrying on observations that require of him 12 hours' service per day, rather than 8 hours. I might say that our work carries us to out-of-the-way places. For illustration, some time ago we asked the Civil Service Commission to hold an examination to give us an assistant at Mount Harqua Hala, Ariz., at a basic salary of $100 per month.

We explained to them that we wanted a young man of intelligence and abilit} 7 , so that if in a pinch the man in charge there should go away to get his teeth fixed, or something like that, he could carry on the whole work, which includes some of the most difficult observing, such as the use of the Langley spectro-bolometer, and other instruments like that. We told them that he should be able to read what we call the pyrheliometer, and that he would have to read it accurately to one one-hundredth *of a degree on the thermometer and to one-fifth of a second in time. We also told them that this was camp life, on top of a mountain 5,500 feet high, in the midst of the Arizona desert, with 5 miles to go on a mountain trail, and 11 miles more through the hot desert to the nearest town, which was a place of 50 inhabitants. That was the character of life that the 3 T oung man could look forward to. As a further requirement, we told them that we wanted him to be of a companionable disposition, so as to get along with his one companion on the top of the mountain; that he should be able to wash dishes, or do anything that was necessary in camp life, besides taking those accurate observations. All of that was required for a basic salary of $100 a month. The Civil Service Commission told us that we were coming to the wrong place; that we should ask God Almighty to furnish us such a man, and that if we knew of such a man, to offer him the job and they would be glad to approve the appointment.

Mr. Wood. So far as money is concerned, the people engaged in this kind of work could make more as car operators.

Doctor Abbot. I think so.

NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART.

Mr. Wood. The item on page 89, with reference to the National Gallery of Art, is eliminated. What have you done with reference to that building ?

Doctor Walcott. You have there the wording of the act as it passed. As soon as possible, we took the matter up with the commission on the National Gallery of Art. Personally I am not sufficiently well acquainted with sculpture or painting; and so this commission was appointed to advise the Board of Regents and the secretary with reference to art matters. That matter was taken up by them, and it seemed desirable for us to get plans. So word was sent out to various parties who might be interested; and $10,000 was contributed for the preparation of plans. The Board of Regents at a recent meeting approved the recommendation of this commission on

the National Gallery of Art to employ Charles A. Piatt, the architect of the Freer Art Building, to prepare preliminary plans and sketches. He was here last week. He went over things in connection with it, and will proceed to prepare the plans. That is the advance that has been made thus far. I might say that at the time this matter was brought up originally there seemed to be a fair prospect of getting a considerable contribution on the outside from private sources, but with the introduction of the idea that the Smithsonian Institution might be transferred to the Bureau of Education, it seems to have scared them away. A gentleman told me that he would be much more willing to contribute toward an art building for the Smithsonian Institution than he would be if it were to be transferred to the Bureau of Education for educational purposes. In other words, the effect has been such that it will be exceedingly difficult to interest private individuals in that way.

Mr. Wood. The outcome will be that the Government will be asked to make the appropriation for the building.

Doctor Walcott. Originally we thought it would be possible to get the money from the outside, but I am very much afraid now that it will not transpire. At the present time we have art and historical material that will require 200,000 square feet; and the storage, shop, etc., would require another 100,000 feet; making 300,000 square feet of floor space that would be utilized if we had the building. It will take two. three, or four years to erect the building, and by that time there will be much more material.

Mr. Wood. The prospect is not very bright so far as that building is concerned.

NATIONAL MUSEUM.

CASES, FURNITURE, FIXTURES, ETC.

Mr. Wood. For the National Museum, you ask $21,800 for cases, furniture, fixtures, etc. Your current appropriation for this purpose is $20,000. I presume that the difference is due to reclassification.

Mr. Ravexel. Yes, sir. One hundred and eighty dollars of the increase is due to classification, and the balance represents the difference between the bonus paid to the employees on that pay roll and the present pay. The appropriation is practically the same as it lias been for the last five years.

Mr. Wood. Will that appropriation be used this year?

Mr. Kavexel. The appropriation, I am sorry to say. is really inadequate. We received during the past year 20,000 coins and medals deposited by the Treasury Department, which had for many years been kept in the mint at Philadelphia. There are 19,000 coins of the United States and of foreign countries and 1.000 medals and insignia. It is one of the most valuable collections of the kind in any museum.

The prices of some of the various materials used in the construction of furniture are very much higher than last year. In a few cases they are a trifle less. For example, we paid last year and the year before, 52 cents and 58 cents, respectively, for plate glass, which was necessary in the construction of our exhibition cases; and this year we are paying $1.10 per square foot. In the case of paint materials, such as linseed oil, there has been an increase. We

are paying for linseed oil $1.13, as against $1.02 last year. Lumber is about a stand-off, except that the classes that we use to the greatest extent have increased in price, and the classes that we use to a less extent have decreased to a very small extent. We have estimated, for exhibition furniture, $7,000; for storage cases, $8,000; for glass jars and vials, $1,742; for pasteboard boxes and trays, $1,558; office and laboratory furniture, $1,500; and miscellaneous equipment, $200. That makes a total of $20,000. There are seven men employed under this appropriation, all of whom devote their entire time to the manufacture of cases, and to repairs and remodeling work.

Mr. Wood. There are seven men employed under this appropriation ?

Mr. Kavenel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. They must not be paid very high salaries.

Mr. Ravenel. No, sir. Our salaries are exactly the same as they were last year with the bonus. I am sorry to say that they received less under the classification than men in the Agricultural Department who are doing exactly the same work, and a great deal less than men in the Bureau of Printing and Engraving who are doing the same grade of work.

Mr. Wood. Why should they receive less ? Why should they not be put in the same grade with the men in the Agricultural Department and other places who are doing the same work ?

Mr. Ravenel. They are in the same grade, but that grade covers six ranges in salary, starting with $1,440 and going up to $2,100. Those men are receiving $1,800 while some of ours are receiving $1,440.

Mr. Wood. Has anybody ever been able to explain to you why that difference should exist ?

Mr. Ravenel. The law says that they shall start at the minimum rate in the grade unless they were receiving a higher rate.

Mr. Wood. The misfortune in the case of your men was that they were getting too little before.

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir; we could not afford to pay them more. We had the pay down to the lowest point, and it got to the place where when any of our men died or resigned it was impossible to fill the place for a year at a time. It so happens that at the present moment we have two temporary men at the regular grade pay of $1,440.

Mr. Wood. That shows the fundamental weakness of this classification business. It was supposed to put all of the people doing like work upon the same salary basis.

Mr. Ravenel. I do not believe that condition exists in any two departments. The misfortune at the Museum is that they have been receiving less pay than employees in any other department doing the same grade of work in all classes.

HEATING, LIGHTING, ETC.

Mr. Wood. The next item is, "For heating, lighting, electrical, telegraphic, and telephonic service, $77,560." Your current appropriation for this purpose is $70,000.

Mr. Ravenel. The estimate submitted by the Budget Bureau is $77,560. The regular appropriation for a number of years has been $70,000. The Budget allows us 34 men on this roll, and their salaries amount to $40,725. leaving only $36,840 for all other expenses. From this appropriation all of the buildings on the Mall between Ninth and Twelfth Streets and B Street SW. and B Street NW. are heated, lighted, and ventilated, and the ice machine operated. It includes also telegraph and telephone service, furnishes power for the operation of machinery in the shops and laboratories, and for a small laundry outfit.

Mr. Wood. Where do you have your laundry done '.

Mr. Ravenel. We put in a small machine three or four years ago ut very small expense. The work is done by two laborers who do it as an incident to their other duties. Our floor space is about 688,000 square feet, or something like 16 acres in all of the buildings. In the natural history building there are 10 acres of floor space. We utilize charwomen entirely for that builrling, but in the other buildings, for various reasons, we utilize men. We are obliged to have for the ordinary work around those live buildings a certain number of laborers. Two men give about six hours per week in doing the laundry work. The cost of it is practically the cost of the soap and the interest on an investment of $400 in addition to said labor. It has been figured out that the steam that is required would not cost more than $10 or $15 a year.

Mr. Wood. Do you do any laundering for anybody else I

Mr. Ravenel. We do it only for ourselves. The employees on this roll are handicapped the same as those on the other rolls of the museum, because their wages were very low when classified. It is with the utmost difficulty that we can retain them. We have two positions providing for electricians at $1,440, and when filled they stay with us only three or four months and then go to some other department or take positions on the outside.

WATKi: MAINS.

Mr. Wood. The clerk calls my attention to the fact that there l- an estimate in House Document No. 134 for laying some water mains. The estimate was sent in as a deficiency, but it has been transferred down here.

Mr. Ravenel. That is a supplemental estimate which we submitted in 1922 at the urgent suggestion of the District Commissioners. The Smithsonian Institution had occasion to ask the District Commissioners to allow the city fire department to wash the Natural History Building, which is a white granite building and which had become very dirty on the outside. We had no facilities for doing it. In trying to wash the south front of the building, they found that the only plug available was 800 feet away from the building, and, when the engine was attached to it, they found that it was an old fashioned fire plug that could not be utilized. It was supplied by a 3-inch pipe, and they were unable to use it. They were so impressed with the danger, not only to the Natural History Building v, i ill its immensely valuable collections, but also, to the Smithsonian and arts and industries buildings across the park, that the District Commissioners urged us to have four modern fire plugs put in.

We acted upon that suggestion and submitted the estimate to the Budget in 1922 for the 1923 bill. That was rejected, and we submitted it again for 1924 last September, but it was held over without action and not included in the annual budget. In October the Budget office called up the Smithsonian Institution and asked that it be put in as a deficiency estimate, and we promptly complied with their request. The cost of those four plugs was estimated two years ago at $8,500. After conferring with the District authorities, it seemed advisable to make it $9,000 because of the increased cost of material and labor. Therefore, it now comes to you as an item of $9,000.

Mr. Wood. It is only $8,500 here.

Mr. Ravenel. I put it in as $9,000.

Mr. Wood. It is only $8,500 here. Perhaps you put it in that way and they trimmed it at the Budget Bureau.

Mr. Ravenel. That is quite possible. It was sent in as $9,000.

Mr. Wood. The recommendation from the Budget Bureau is $8,500. Should not that be under the item for heating and lighting ?

Mr. Ravenel. No, sir; because it has nothing to do with heating and lighting.

Mr. Wood. Where does it come in ?

Mr. Ravenel. We pay for the fire protection inside of the building from the appropriation for the preservation of collections, but we would not be authorized under the law to spend money to put in plugs in the park, which is under the jurisdiction of the Superintendent of Public Buildings and Grounds, from that appropriation unless you put in specific language authorizing it. It could be put in as a separate item.

Mr. Wood. W T ould it not be advisable to put this item in the appropriation for the Superintendent of Public Buildings and Grounds ?

Mr. Ravenel. We would prefer not doing that, because I took this matter up with Colonel Sherrill and asked him particularly, if we got an appropriation for this purpose, would he allow the District Commissioners to do it, because they are much better equipped to do that work, and he very cordially agreed to it.

Mr. Wood. You think it should be done under your own supervision ?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir; and Colonel Sherrill is willing.

CONTINUING preservation, exhibition, and increase of collections.

Mr. Wood. The next item is on page 92:

For continuing preservation, exhibition, and increase of collections from the surveying and exploring expeditions of the Government, and from other sources, including the necessary employees, all other necessary expenses, and not exceeding $2,500 for drawings and illustrations for publications, $434,482.

Your current appropriation is $312,500. Why do you ask that increase ?

Mr. Ravenel. The large majority of that increase is due to reclassification, the $312,500 does not include the bonus of $68,448. Under this appropriation there are carried 309 employees. One hundred and twenty-three of them are in the professional, sub-professional, clerical, administrative, and fiscal services, and 186 of them are in the custodial class. All of the scientific staff, the admin-

istrative staff and the curators, who are called professionals, are paid from this appropriation. The difference in the salaries received by those men in the professional and subprofessional classes is much more marked even than in the case of the engineers and mechancis, as compared with, men in other scientific bureaus of the Government.

Mr. Wood. It strikes me that the classification is taking care of those men to a very marked degree, but that it has not paid any attention to the employees of the lower classes in some services in the way of putting them on the same basis with employees in other services who are doing the same kind of work.

Mr. Ravenel. They are not being paid on the same scale as employees in other bureaus to-day for the reason that I stated before; that is, that their pay was so much lower at the beginning.

Mr. Carter. I have not heard of any bureau where the emplovees were being paid the higher salaries, but all of them claim that they are getting the low-grade salaries.

Mr. Wood. My observation has been that the people working in the old institutions, whose salaries were fixed years and years ago, have suffered as compared with those who are occupying like positions in new institutions. I suppose that is true all the way through.

Mr. Ravenel. I think that the most marked difference, so far as the lower salaries are concerned, is in the Smithsonian Institution.

Mr. Carter. We have had the same complaint from the Indian Bureau, the Geological Survey, and other services.

Mr. Wood. This reclassification was supposed to be the cure for all those difficulties, and it was contemplated that people performing like service would receive like compensation. Do you know why that has not been done?

Mr. Ravenel. They can not do it because of two provisions in the bill. One is that salaries shall start at the initial salary rate in the grade, and the second is that no man's salary shall be reduced.

Mr. Wood. I can see that reason, and they will run along and do some more patchwork. In this business, each concern will come along and patch its own affairs. The patchwork will be done again, and we are not going along much better than before, so far as the equalization of salaries is concerned.

Mr. Ravenel. Where our men are getting $3,800, other men performing like service in other departments are receiving $-1,500.

Mr. Wood. That is the very difference I am talking about.

You say that you have 309 people employed down there; you propose to have 309 in 1925 as against 304 for the current fiscal year.

ADDITIONAL WATCHMEN.

Mr. Ravenel. The Budget allowed us five watchmen at $1,020. Four of them are for further protection to the Freer Building. You may remember that when the Freer Building was opened, of before it was opened, but after it was finished, Congress provided 812,500 for the services of watchmen, firemen, laborers, charwomen, stenographer, preparator, and supplies. The galleries in that building are small rooms. There are something like 32 separate galleries, and it has been impossible for the seven men provided to properly protect that very valuable collection. May of the paintings on the wall are small, about that size [indicating], and there are pieces of pottery

worth thousands of dollars. It is absolutely necessary that they should have an increased watch force there.

Mr. Wood. Did it ever occur to you that you are incurring a risk by having an increased number of watchmen ? Too many watchmen are like too many anything else.

Mr. Ravenel. The reason we have gotten along with the force is because our watch force is organized upon a very high plane of efficiency. We have had two, three, or four fires started that did not get to the flame point. Our men make regular rounds, and they have to turn in clock records at certain points. The next morning the dial of the clock is examined by an electrician, and if it is found that a man has missed a single signal, he is warned that a repetition of it will result in disciplinary measures.

Mr. Wood. You will do that with these extra four men ?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir. With the present force, there are only two men in the Freer Building at night. We need day watchmen, because of the danger of theft. The extra men we have gotten are practically all for the Freer Building.

Mr. Sandlin. I notice from the table that the increase in this item due to the classification act is $41,474.

Mr. Ravenel. 168,448 represents the bonus.

Mr. Sandlin. That is to be added to the $41,474?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir.

CARE AND CUSTODY OP BUILDINGS.

Mr. Wood. You attend to the cleaning of the buildings yourselves'?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. I notice that a great many buildings have been transferred to Colonel Sherrill's office. Is there any advantage in your retaining the control or custody of these buildings, instead of putting them under his control ?

Mr. Ravenel. I believe that we are as well organized as any branch of service in the Government.

Mr. Wood. Our experience has been that the concentration of the control of these buildings has resulted in a reduction of the overhead cost.

Mr. Ravenel. That is perfectly true, but we have been reduced down to the very minimum. We have 16 acres of floor space scattered over four large and several small buildings located from Ninth to Twelfth Streets and from B Street SW. to B Street NW. Our buildings extend over three blocks east to west and three blocks north to south. We have in the natural history building at night, in that 10 acres of floor space, only six men. You must remember that with the 55 men that we have we must figure on a certain amount of sickness and annual leave. The result is that the number is not as great as it would seem. It is true that the watchmen's record for sick leave is less than eight days in the year on the average.

Mr. Wood, Healthy people ought not to be sick eight days in the year. The point I am making is that such an economy has been shown as a result of putting these buildings under one control, I would like to know why your buildings should be excepted.

Mr. Ravenel. Our watchmen have entirely different duties from those of other watchmen in the Government service. They are on

doors, while our men are circulating throughout the building, both

night and day. The day watchmen must be men with a certain amount of intelligence, or men who can direct visitors to the various halls. There are also some halls in which we must keep men night and day. For instance, in the mineral hall we have to have a special man night and day. The same thing is true of the hall where the numismatic collection that we received from the Treasury Department is placed. One man stays in the doorway of that hall at all times. We have one man on the first watch and one on the second and third watches.

Mr. Wood. How do you keep them awake '.

Mr. Ravenel. Those particular men do not make rounds, but they are sitting where they can see the hall. We also have a lieutenant, who goes around all the time. Any man who goes to sleep on the watch does not remain in the service.

Mr. Wood. We have so many sleepers over in the House Office Building, that I wondered how you kept yours awake. I do not see how some of the people over there get enough exercise to eat. You think your watchmen do not sleep so much '.

Mr. Ravenel. They can not. If a man sleeps on duty, for the first offense he is furloughed without pay for a short period, and the next time it occurs he is discharged.

Mr. Wood. You are asking about $6,000 increase over the appropriation of last year. You are asking that increase over and above the increase due to the bonus and reclassification.

Mr. Carter. How much of it is absorbed by the reclassification '.

Mr. Wood. They have five additional men, and aside from that there is an increase of about $6,960. What will you do with that?

Mr. Ravenel. The Director of the Budget gave us an increase for the procurement of collections, and also an increase in transportation. It is not only for the purchase of material, but to enable us, where it is necessary, to secure particular specimens by field work.

For example, last year, at an expense of $3,000 we secured from Jensen. Utah, the skeleton of a Diplodocus which is an extinct animal, 80 feet long and 14 feet high. That skeleton is valued, conservatively, at anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000.

Mr. Wood. What family does that animal belong to I

Mr. Ravenel. It is of the dinasaur family.

Doctor Walcott. We did not find any eggs with that skeleton. They have been finding those in Manchuria.

Mr. Ravenel. It will take us three years to install that specimen.

Mr. Wood. Is not that a rather unusual type to preserve, or do you have to fix it up I

Mr. Ravenel. We have to fill in certain pieces, but it is probably the most complete skeleton in existence.

Mr. Carter. This appropriation has increased about 2<S per cent.

Mr. Ravenel. We have gone from $312,500 to $434,000.

Mr. Carter. An increase of about $122,000.

Mr. Ravexel. $41,474 for reclassification, $68,448 for the bonus, making about $109,922.

Mr. Carter. What I am trying to get at is how much of this was necessary to carry out the provisions of the reclassification act.

Mr. Ravexel. '$41,474. Then there was $68,448 for the bonus.

Mr. Sandlin. Which has to be taken care of in a separate bill?

ADDITIONAL ASSISTANT SECRETARY.

Mr. Wood. There is an item here of $6,000 for an additional assistant secretary of the Smithsonian Institution. There was an additional assistant secretary for three months last year at the same rate, $6,000. The first item for that was in a deficiency, and you are now asking for $6,000 for the salary of an assistant secretary. Where are you going to put that amount ?

Mr. Ravenel. That comes directly under the Smithsonian Institution.

Doctor Walcott. Mr. Chairman, may I put this statement in the record ?

The fundamental act creating the Smithsonian Institution provides:

Sec. 5583. The secretary of the Board of Regents shall take charge of the building and property of the institution, and shall, under their direction, make a fair and accurate record of all their proceedings, to be preserved in the institution; and shall also discharge the duties of librarian and of keeper of the museum, and may, with the consent of the Board of Regents, employ assistants. (R. S.)

There has never been a specific provision of law for the appointment of an assistant secretary. That is a title within the administration of the organization, under the authority to employ assistants.

The matter of the desirability of having an assistant secretary was brought up before the Board of Regents at the annual meeting on December 13, 1923, and after very full consideration a resolution was passed declaring—

that the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution declare the need of an additional assistant secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, whose salary shall be provided for by congressional appropriation; the said assistant secretary to be charged with the administration, under the direction of the secretary, of the National Museum, art galleries, Zoological Park, and Bureau of American Ethnology, and with such other duties as may from time to time be assigned to him by the secretary.

Resolved, That this resolution be transmitted to the President of the United States with the request that if it meet his approval an item be submitted to the Congress for inclusion in the independent offices appropriation bill providing for an assistant secretary of the Smithsonian Institution at a compensation of $7,500 per annum.

This was forwarded to the President, transmitted to the Budget Bureau, and the Bureau of the Budget recommended to the President, and the President recommended to Congress in this document No. 159 that an assistant secretary be provided for for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1925, at a salary of $6,000.

Mr. Wood. You asked for a deficiency for 1924; did you get that?

Doctor Walcott. The recommendation that went to the President was for $7,500 for an additional assistant secretary for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1925. By recommendation of the Personnel Classification Board the compensation was reduced to $6,000, and the $1,500 was put in as a deficiency item so that the place could be filled during the last quarter of 1924.

Mr. Wood. The request was for $7,500 salary ?

Doctor Walcott. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wood. What are you going to do with him ?

Doctor Walcott. Just a moment, please. Under the reclassification act he would be put in class No. 6, which provides a minimum salary of $6,000 and a maximum salary of $7,500.

Mr. Wood. Who is filling that place now? Have you somebody-doing that work ?

Doctor Walcott. No.

Mr. Wood. You are getting along all right, are you not?

Doctor Walcott. Not very well, sir.

INCREASE OF SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.

Going back a moment in the historical development of the matter, the Museum was provided for in the organic act establishing the Smithsonian Institution in 1846. The Museum grew very slowly until 1876, when the Philadelphia exhibition brought to the United States an immense collection of material from various nations of the world. At the close of the exhibition many of these collections were presented to and accepted by the Government.

It then became necessary to provide for their care, and the present museum system was developed, first, with the erection of a building to meet immediate necessities, in 1878, and subsequently, in 1906, by the erection of the great Natural History Museum Building, and to these has since been added the Freer Gallery of Art, in 1923, and there is now immediate necessity for a large building to accommodate the art and history collections of the Government.

The Bureau of American Ethnology originated with the explorations of the Colorado River by Maj. John W. Powell in 1867-1869, and which were extended later into a survey of the Rocky Mountain region, under Powell. When the several geological and geographical surveys of the Government were consolidated into the United States Geological Survey in 1879, the ethnological investigations of the Powell, Hayden, and Wheeler surveys were separated and placed in charge of a special bureau under the direction of the Smithsonian Institution, where they have continued to be administered.

The Zoological Park was created by acts of Congress of March 2, 1889, and April 30, 1890, definitely placing the park under the direction of the Regent of the Smithsonian Institution. The present area of the park is 175 acres, and it was visited during the last fiscal year by 2,393.428 persons.

For 65 years the growth of the art collections of the Government was relatively slow. All that were gathered were treated as a collection of the National Museum and installed wherever a vacant place could be found. A great impulse was given during the Roosevelt administration by the bequest of the Harriet Lane Johnston collection and by gifts to the Nation by Evans and Freer, and later by Ralph Cross Johnson.

On July 1, 1920, the art collections of the Government in charge of the Smithsonian Institution was segregated as the result of an appropriation by Congress, and the National Gallery of Art was organized and housed wherever space could be found for it in the Natural History Building. To this was added in 1923 the great Freer collection in a separate building.

What was the primary purpose of the Smithsonian Institution ? In the report of the organization committee of the institution, made in 1847, which was signed by Robert Dale Owen, chairman, the committee stated that, after full consideration, the "increase and diffusion of knowledge" was the purpose of the gift; and that the

best method of increasing knowledge was by original research; and that the diffusion of knowledge should be through publication and lectures; and that it did not come within the scope of the institution to impart professional education, and that in submitting the plan it was proposed to occupy, as far as possible, ground hitherto untenanted and not to compete with other institutions in fields of labor peculiarly their own.

Then they make certain observations as to the special field of work.

But the first purpose of the Institution, the increase of knowledge by research, conspicuous compared to other features of the Institution activities, during the administration of Secretary Henry, and that of Secretary Baird, has become less so in the more recent period.

This relative decrease in research work came from the absorption of the energies of the staff in administrative work demanded by the museums, the Bureau of American Ethnology, the Zoological Park, and now the National Gallery of Art. At the present time the research work of the Institution proper consists almost entirely of that carried on by the assistant secretary, Dr. C. G. Abbot, largely by private funds donated for the purpose, and the research work of the secretary, which is in great measure sustained at his personal expense.

In reference to the matter of financial responsibility, the growth of the responsibilities placed upon the staff is shown by the estimated value of all real property and permanent improvements belonging to the Institution and its branches. This includes the following:

Value of buildings, $5,813,900; value of ground, $5,543,311; value of exhibits, $106,165,000; value of furniture and fixtures, $1,000,000, making a total of $118,522,211.

The value of the property is taken from data furnished the Budget Bureau in 1921; the value of the grounds from the Public Buildings Commission report of 1917. The value given for the buildings is that of cost; they could not be reproduced to-day for Jess than $8,000,000 to $10,000,000.

The value of the museum collections was based upon very careful and thorough examination. The number of specimens is 9,651,664, and the estimate of value of $100,000,000 might be varied $10,000,000 one way or the other, according to the conception of the party or the committee making the estimate.

But as Mr. Ravenel just stated, this one specimen of the Diplodocus would be valued at anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000, and there are a great many very valuable specimens. Then, too, the other collections are very valuable, and the sum total is given as $100,000,000.

Under the development which has gone on in the past, the secretary has been responsible for the care and development of the different branches, but they have grown and expanded to such an extent that it is impossible for him to keep in touch with the work that is going on in all the branches, especially the scientific work.

Take, for instance, the museum and the Bureau of Ethnology. Then, too, there is research work which is attempted to be carried on. It is essential to have some one who will have a close supervision over all of the activities going on in connection with these outside matters.

The time of the secretary should be given to taking up those important matters with the assistant secretary Doctor Abbot (who

has charge of the Astrophysics] Observatory, the library, the exchanges), and to attending to matters that come before the institution from all over the world, of various kinds. It is necessary to give time and attention to them.

The secretary also has the very difficult task of endeavoring to get funds for research work. In the past year I have given considerable time and attention to obtaining an increase in the endowment. Our present endowment is $1,192,770.28.

Mr. Wood. Where does that come from (

Doctor W t alcott. The Smithson fund is $717.040. That was the original endowment. Then a gentleman by the name of Hodgkins left in his will a bequest of $100,000, the income to be used for investigations in relation to the atmosphere and the influence of air upon the welfare of man. and in addition an unrestricted bequest of $110,000 for the general purposes of the institution.

Then a Washington gentleman by the name of Avery left bequests now amounting to nearly $42,000, and there are various other small funds from similar sources.

In what we call the consolidated fund there is $192,770.28. That is made up of the combined small funds that have been given for one purpose or another from time to time.

All of the income of the institution comes from the interest at 0 per cent on the Si,000,000 in the treasury, and then the interest from the $192,000 invested outside.

Mr. Wood. In the case of some of those endowments, you have to follow directions as to how the proceeds are to be used \

Doctor Walcott. They are for specific purposes.

Mr. Wood. And the others you can use as you see (it, for the general benefit of the institution 3

Doctor Walcott. For the general work of the institution. But as you know, research work which cost a very small sum 50 years ago. when a small amount of money would go a long way, at the present time is very expensive. The Carnegie Institution for Research, with which I have been connected for many years, now has a fund of $27,000,000, and they have a large income"amounting to $1,300,000, in round numbers.

That sum is allotted annually by the board of trustees for specific research work. But that amount is not equal to the demands that are made, and wisely made, in connection with the various projects which they have taken up.

Take the Mount Wilson solar observatory in California, where all that superb astronomical work has been done in the past 20 years. That has been paid for from the income of the Carnegie Institution.

Mr. Wood. Is that the Mount Hamilton Observatory '.

Doctor Walcott. The Mount Hamilton or Lick Observatory is the one at the University of California.

What I think the secretary should do as to be free to give his time and attention to those larger matters and have an assistant secretary he can depend upon to keep the scientific work of the museums and galleries going on, and also coordinating that work with the work going on in the various scientific institutions of the Government.

We have, for instance, the Bureau of Standards, the laboratories in the Agricultural Department, the Geological Survey, the Bureau of Mines, and the Coast and Geodetic Survey. There are questions

INDEPENDENT OFFICES APPROPRIATION BILL, 1025.

285

coming up which need some one man thoroughly conversant with all that is going on, not only in the Smithsonian Institution but in the various bureaus, to keep in touch with that work, in order to get the best results.

Mr. Wood. What does the secretary of the institution receive now ?

Doctor Walcott. $10,000.

Mr. Wood. Who is the secretary ?

Doctor Walcott. I am the secretary"*

We took up the question of salary, and I have here a number of tables showing the pajmients that are being made to professors in universities and I have also a table giving data in regard to State universities and colleges.

I find that the president of a university who, I think, has not very much greater responsibility than the secretary of the Smithsonian Institution—at least many of them do not have—are paid from $7,500 a year to $12,000. Those salaries show that the average salary for the presidents of universities is $11,032.

Then I also have quite an interesting table showing salaries of scientific workers inside the Government service and outside the Government service for the higher class of employees. But these employees do not have much administrative responsibility. They are doing technical and scientific work.

If you desire, I will put these tables in the record.

Mr. Wood. We will be glad to have those in the record.

(The tables above referred to are as follows:)

Salaries in educational institutions as reported in April, 1920.

[Reportedin the Bulletin of the University of Minnesota, '"'The salary situation and cost of living," vol.23

No. 45, Nov. 5, 1920.]

University.

Columbia

Harvard

Yale

Average

Professors.

5,667- 8.000

Associate professors.

$4,500-45, 000 5,000- 5,500

4,750- 5,250

Assistant professors.

$3,000-53,600 3,500- 4,000 2,500- 4,000

Instructors.

$2,000-S2,400 1,650- 2,750 1,250- 2,000

3,000- 3, S67 1,633-2,383

II—A.— Data in regard to State universities and colleges.

Salaries.

Institutions.

Salary.

University of Alabama

University of Arkansas

University of Colorado

University of Georgia

University of Hawaii

University of Illinois

Purdue University (Indiana)

Iowa State College

State University of Iowa

University of Kansas

University of Kentucky

Value of

house,

etc., in

addition.

Maximum.

Average.

$4,500 4,750 4,042 5,000 4,800 7,000 5,375 4,785 5,671 4,750 5,125

Professors. 1

Maximum.

$3,600 3.750 4,000 4,000 4,200 7,000 5,000 6,500 6,500 6", 500 4,200

Average.

$3,600 3,450 3,322 3,600 3,900 4,906 3,600 4,264 4,978 3,496 3,090

II—A.— Data in regard to State universities and colleges —Continued.

Institutions.

Massachusetts Agricultural College

Michigan Agricultural College....

I on i rily of Michigan

University of Nebraska

University of Nevada

New Hampshire College of Agriculture and

Mechanical Arts

University of North Carolina

Ohio Slate University

Pennsylvania State College

University of Tennessee

University of Texas

University of Utah

University of Vermont

University of Washington

West Virginia University

Salaries.

President.

Salary.

7,500 12,000

is. (ion

8, loo

12,000

7, 500

3500

10,000

12,000

7,500

7. .".no Ki.ooo 12.000

'J. 000

Value of

house,

etc., in

addition.

1,500

1,200

( 3 )

1,200

1,500

1.100 1.500

1,000

1,500 900

1,200 2,000

Deans. 1

Maximum.

Professors. 1

Maximum.

Aver-

1,500

12,000 5,000 3,600

3,900

4,500

7,500

5,000

5,000 i

4.400

3,600

4.000

4,500 !

4.500

3,643

4,775 5, 240

:;. 77-1 3,570

3,626

4,200 3,220 3,517 4,000 3.500 3, 400 3,859 3,900

1 Where house, etc., are furnished in addition to the salary the value has been estimated and added to the salary.

Average of above:

Presidents $11,032

Deans 1,915

Professors 3,857

Unpublished data obtained at Bureau of Standards, collected in 1919 for Government Reclassification Commission.

Grade.

Associate geologist. Associate physicist Associate biologist.

Geologist

Physicist

Biologist

Senior geologist... Senior physicist... Senior biologist

Inside Government service.

Number.

34 30 98 38 14 117 5 6 28

Minimum.

$1,740 1,S00

1.020 1,505 2.-too 1,700 3.500 3,600 1,800

Maxi - Average. mum.

$3,300

3,(«ll)

2,700 1,000

3,300

1,000

6,260

0,000

4,500

$2,298

2,533

2,094

3, 115

2,015

2,640 4,600

1.333 3,400

Outside Government service.

Average.

$3,3S2 3,257 2, 003 4,782 3,985 4,359 6,760 5,675 7,128

Mr. Wood. I believe you said you have not anybody now who is doing the work you would have the assistant secretary do.

Doctor Walcott. We have no one connected with the organization doing thai work, and I am very well aware if we endeavored to get such a person it will be a difficult thing to do, although I think it is possible.

In looking about, I find that the head of the Carnegie Institution gets $15,000 a year. The assistants in the Carnegie Institution in charge of departments of work get from $8,000 to $9,000. The secretary of the Research Corporation gets .510,000. In other words, you are competing with these outside organizations when you are looking for a man to bring into the Smithsonian Institution.

Mr. Wood. I suppose the salary of the assistant secretary would come under the expenses of the institution ?

Doctor Walcott. It would come under the institution itself. I think it would be a measure of economy because it would mean the correlation of all the work.

Mr. Wood. I wish you would tell us how we could save $6,000 by having an assistant secretary.

Doctor Walcott. I do not think you could save it in dollars and cents, but I think you could save it in wasted energy that is going out through other employees. That is the only way in which that could be said to be saved.

In endeavoring to get another man for the Bureau of Standards, to take the place of Doctor Stratton, I know that there was quite a wide search made all over the country for persons who could fill that position, and three men were finally agreed upon as being effective and able to fill the position, but they were getting from $25,000 to $50,000 a year in connection with commercial organizations. A high-grade man is hard to get to-day.

Mr. Wood. But they are not as hard to get as they were a year or two ago. During the war additional scientific men were in demand, and outside concerns were just about draining the United States Government of its experts and other high-class men. But I do not hear so much about that any more.

Doctor Walcott. You want not only a scientific expert but a man of administrative sense, and those things do not always go together.

Mr. Wood. I suppose it is a part of the function of the Government to take these fellows and train them until they are of some service to the Government, and then keep them until they are of some service to other people and then let them go. But it costs a good deal of money to do that.

REPAIRS OF BUILDINGS, ETC.

You have an item of $11,000 for the repairs of buildings, shops, and sheds, including necessary labor and material. The appropriation for that purpose for 1924 is $10,000. What is that additional $1,000 for? Does that represent the increase due to reclassification?

Mr. Ravenel. $1,200 was the bonus paid to the five men on that roll.

Mr. Wood. All of the increase shown here is due to reclassification %

Mr. Ravenel. Yes; all of it.

PURCHASE OF BOOKS, ETC.

Mr. Wood. For the purchase of books, pamphlets, and periodicals for reference, you are asking $1,500.

Mr. Ravenel. The regular appropriation for that purpose has been $2,000 for a number of years. The Budget only recommended $1,500.

Mr. Wason. What kind of books do you buy %

Mr. Ravenel. We buy scientific publications exclusively, which are needed for the staff. We do not duplicate the purchase of books in other departments of the Government. Many of them are con-

89499—24 19

tinuatioiis of scientific publications from year to year. ()f course, wc will have to discontinue some of those.

POSTAGE AND FOREIGN POST CARDS.

Mr. "Wood. For postage stamps and foreign post cards you are asking $450. What are those stamps and post cards for '.

Mr. Ravenel. They are required for foreign correspondence, and we purchase international post cards out of that amount. The post cards are used; instead of writing letters and paying 5 cents we pay 1 cent for a post card, which is used in acknowledging receipt of books, etc., from foreign countries.

TOTAL APPROPRIATIONS FOR NATIONAL MUSEUM.

Mr. Wood. In all, the National Museum increase is the difference between $546,792 and $415.000. or an increase of $129,000. I do not see where that all comes in.

Mr. Ravenel. It would be about $131,000. It is because the $415,000 does not include the bonus, while the $546,792 does include this bonus and also the amount for reclassification. The latter also includes provision for additional watchmen, and the small difference is for the procurement of specimens.

Mr. Wood. For the National Museum alone \

Mr. Ravenel. I do not see where all of that comes in.

Mr. Wood. It shows an increase of $129,729.

Mr. Ravenel. 1 have not the data for that. I have the data for all of the different items, and they can be checked over.

Mr. Wood. I do not discover where the difference comes in.

Mr. Ravenel. That is the difference between the total appropriation minus the bonus and the total of the estimate, including reclassifi-cation for the National Museum.

Mr. Wood. The total appropriations for the National Museum for the current fiscal year amount to $415,000, and the estimate for 1925 is $546,792.

Mr. Sandlin. You will find $112,000 of that difference on page 92.

Mr. Ravenel. There is a large part of the difference right there on one appropriation by omitting the bonus.

Mr. Wood. That is $111,000.

Mr. Ravenel. Roughly, the increase is about $5,000 on the general items, and the rest is due to reclassification.

Mr. Wood. Your reclassification increase amounts to more than 4 per cent, does it not 1

Mr. Ravenel. There is only one appropriation under the Museum that is affected, and that is the appropriation for the preservation of collections; there is no increase tor reclassification on the other appropriations, beyond the bonus.

NATIONAL GALLERY OF ART.

Mr. Wood. The next item is:

For the administration of the National Gallery of Art by the Smithsonian Institution, including compensation of necessary employees, purchase of necessary books of reference and periodicals, and necessary incidental expenses, $20,158.

Your current appropriation for this purpose is $16,000.

Doctor Walcott. The increase in the appropriation for the National Gallerv of Art represents $870.67 for reclassification and $2,288 for the bonus. Then, there is an increase of $1,025 under the head of transportation of things, etc. That is for freight. That is for the transportation of collections, paintings, statuary, and art pieces that come to the institution. It also covers those that are from time to time sent by the Institution to be exhibited in other institutions. We have a large surplus of material with no place for its exhibition, and the estimate is that to cover this expense of transportation we will need $1,025 more than we had last year.

Mr. Wood. You will need that much more for next year?

Doctor Walcott. I think necessarily so.

Mr. Ravenel. As an illustration of what the National Gallery of Art needs, it had to pay for the freight last year on the McFadden collection, which was valued at $2,500,000. It is now on exhibition at the gallery in Washington; but it was left to the city of Philadelphia on condition that they build a suitable gallery. It was offered by Senator Pepper to the National Gallery of Art, and was left here for an indefinite period. The National Gallery of Art had to pay the transportation from Philadelphia, which amounted to several hundred dollars. We get the benefit of that collection, perhaps, for seven years.

Mr. Wood. Is it still here?

Mr. Ravexel. Yes, sir. The value of that collection was estimated at at least $2,500,000 or $3,000,000, we were told.

Mr. Wood. Where is the collection >'

Mr. Ravenel. In the National Gallery of Art; it has been here over a year. It would seem almost necessary to have a slight increase for freight, for things of that kind, besides for the numberless exhibits that come in as loans.

Mr. Wood. The freight is paid from this item ?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir.

PRINTING AND BINDING.

Mr. Wood. The next item is on page 97:

For printing and binding for the Smithsonian Institution, including all of its bureaus, offices, institutions, and services located in Washington, D. C, and elsewhere, $70,000. - '

Your current appropriation for this purpose is $77,400.

ANNUAL REPORT OF SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.

Doctor Walcott. Mr. Chairman, in accordance with the action of the Board of Regents at their last meeting, there is one item in that which I would like to speak of particularly, and that is the annual report of the Smithsonian Institution which is transmitted to Congress and printed. During the war, owing to the pressure of war work, the annual reports of the Smithsonian Institution were allowed to fall over two years behind date, that is, the report for 1918 came out in 1920, that for 1919 appeared in 1921, and so on. The annual allotment for printing these reports is $10,000. As it is only barely possible to publish one of these volumes for this amount,

it is obvious that they will continue to come out over two years late indefinitely, unless an additional $10,000 is granted to enable the institution to bring out two reports in one year. The appropriation for the current fiscal year is $10,000, less $1,640.29, the amount expended therefrom for finishing the 1920 report; leaving $8,359.71 as the balance available for the 1922 report. The estimated cost of the 1922 report, after reducing the manuscript to two-thirds the normal number of articles, is $9,992.46; leaving a deficit in the present appropriation for finishing the 1922 report of $1,632.75.

This means that this report for 1922, which is now in page proof at the Printing Office released for printing, can not be completed until after July 1, f924; whereas, if money were available, the book could be sent to press at once. Work could then be started at once at the Printing Office on the report for 1923, now practically ready for the printer, and thereafter the volumes could be issued to the public less than one year after the end of the period which they are intended to cover, which is a reasonable time for putting such a volume through the press. An additional $10,000 was therefore requested in a supplemental estimate made to the Bureau of the Budget for inclusion in the deficiency bill for this year. This estimate, however, was disapproved by that Bureau. Unless this additional sum is made available, the charges against the report will continue to lap over into the second year following their date, and there will be no possibility of bringing them out less than two years late.

That is simply a statement of the conditions, and the people are asking why the report does not come out. It is not possible to bring the reports out promptly, under the conditions.

Mr. Wood. In getting out these reports, does each individual report contain entirely new matter; or is it some old report with some supplemental matter in it?

Doctor Walcott. These reports are supposed to bring us up to the end of the fiscal year. Two months after the close of the fiscal year a letter is addressed, we will say, to six chemists, half a dozen mining men, etc.—in other words, to a few people engaged in all lines of scientific activity—asking them what, in their judgment, is the best or the most instructive paper or most useful paper published in the world with relation to their particular subject. This year 30 or 40 people were asked to make recommendations in relation to that. They individually recommend one, two, four, or more papers; and those papers are submitted to a committee of experts, who check them over, and who then select the papers. For instance, here is one on the Einstein theory; and there are a great variety of other topics covered.

Mr. Wood. Have you ever found anybody who could interpret the Einstein theory 1

Doctor Walcott. This one by Doctor Russell, of Princeton, is very clear. The object is to bring out and make available to the American people the best papers that have been printed anywhere in the world covering a rather wide range of subjects. There are 10,000 copies of the report printed. During the past 10 years I have had up several times the question of where the documents went and by whom they were used. We have no general list of individuals to send them to. For instance, if anybody in Texas said he would like to have the report, we would send it. If he requested us to put

his name on a list for all the reports, we would write back that we kept no list. They would write in each year for them. They would write also to their Member of Congress or to their Senator for a report, and those requests were checked up to see that there was no duplication. In connection with the most popular publication, the Library Journal states that the office of the Superintendent of Documents shows the most popular United States Government publications in the following order: Smithsonian Annaul Report, Pan-American Union Bulletin, the Yearbook of the Department of Agriculture, and the Congressional Record. Next to the Congressional Record is the report of the American Historical Society, and next is the Census Bureau Abstract and Compendium followed by the Farmers' bulletins and departmental bulletins issued by the Department of Agriculture.

I have some letters here from which I read as follows:

I thank you for the 1922 report of the Smithsonian Institution which has just come to hand. I have already spent a few hours in taking a hasty run through it, in preparation for a more careful study of its contents.

The amount of information you have condensed in this one volume would be shocking to me were it not for the fact that you do it each year. Of course, I realize that your associates work at it all the time; but even with capable aid it seems a monumental achievement. I thank you for placing me on your mailing list.

That letter is from Worcester R. Warner, the manufacturer, formerly of Cleveland, Ohio.

Here is a letter from the librarian of Davidson College, N. C.:

I am writing to ask if you can supply our library with a copy of your annual report for 1915. Ours is a depositary library, but in some way we failed to receive this report, and the Superintendent of Documents writes that their supply is exhausted. I make cards for all the articles in these reports, and I feel that they constitute a most valuable source of reference in the library.

NEED FOE ADDITIONAL FUNDS.

Mr. Wood. You say that in order to do this work as it might be done, you should have $10,000 in addition to what has been recommended by the Budget ?

Doctor Walcott. With the $10,000 that we have this year, we can not finish the publication of the present volume, which is now waiting to be printed, until after the 1st of July. Of course, that will make all 01 the volumes two years late.

Mr. Wason. What additional amount do you need for this year to complete the publication up to the 1st of July?

Doctor Walcott. $1,652.75. In order to catch up, we must get money to bring out two volumes next year. That would mean $20,000 for next year.

Mr. Wood. You should have $10,000 in addition to what is in the estimate here ?

Mr. Dorsey. Yes, sir.

Mr. Wason. Did you not get $10,000 for the current fiscal year?

Mr. Dorsey. Yes, sir; but they had an overhang last year of $1,600 for the previous volume.

Doctor Walcott. I do not know whether you know it, or not, but the articles are printed separately. If a man is interested in oiie question—say, in botany—we send him a botanic paper, or one

little pamphlet, instead of sending him the entire volume. If he is interested in the Science of Man, Its Needs and Prospects, we send him this paper [indicating]. Here is one on the Indian in Literature, and one on Ancestor Worship of the Hopi Indians. In that way we secure ;• Aery economical distribution of the information.

Thursday, February 28, 1024.

STATEMENT OF HON. WALTES H. NEWTON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

PRINTING, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.

Mr. Wood. Mr. Newton, I understand that you want to say something to us about this printing estimate for the Smithsonian Institution.

Mr. Newton. Mr. Chairman, tjtie Speaker honored me by appointing me as one of the members of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution: and my first meeting was some two or three weeks ago. In connection With an endeavor to find out something about the work of the Institution. I made some inquiries and asked them with reference to the printing of the annual reports. I refer t<> the annual report which is published every yeai'. and which is gotten out, and has been ever since the war, somewhat behind time. I think now it is about two years behind. My inquiry led up to the reason for that, and I was informed that that was due to getting behind during the war because of the press of other business. It was staled that the board had tried to catch up and had included in their estimates for this year a sufficient amount of money to print not only that which is back one year but also to print the report for the current year, but that the Director of the Budget struck out their request for 820,000 covering both prints, and included only one, the effect of which is merely to postpone that which the Government will eventually do. It means that the report goes to persons who are interested in it two years behind time, instead of, as it used to be, as I understand it, about a year behind. I am only speaking approximately.

Xow, it seemed to me that there was no sound economy in that. Mere is a report that is very much desired by people all over the country. It is a popular proposition. Every kind of community is interested in it from time to time, and the impression goes out, when the report is some two years behind, that it does not reflect well upon the Governments capacity to do business and do it promptly.

That was one proposition, and then there was something arising in connection with the National Museum which was also cut down below the estimate. That involves something in the way of a technical matter, and I do not assume to do anything more than call the committee's attention to the particular item. I see Doctor Walcott is here, and he can give you much more information about it than I can. It is not my purpose to discuss the technical aspects of this at all. However, here is an institution that ought to get out its reports somewhere within the time they are expected. It seems to me the

Government ought not to handicap the institution and its officers by simply withholding action. This particular report that they want to have published is all set up, in galley type, ready to be printed. Yet, notwithstanding that fact, it must be put over until next July; and the report that would ordinarily be printed then has got to go over until a year from that time. It is a waste of paper: and it is a saving of only the interest upon that amount of $10,000.

I think that is all I care to say; but I would like to have Doctor Walcott supplement my statement.

Mr. Wood. The doctor has been talking to us about it for a long while.

Mr. Newton. Then I am supplementing his statement. I would like for the record to show that Congressman Moore of Virginia, who is also a member of the Board of Regents, intended to come down here, but some other matters that he was particularly interested in came up, and, apparently, he was not able to come.

The appropriation of $37,500 for the National Museum for 1924, for printing and binding the manuscripts already recommended by the advisory committee, is inadequate. On January 31 $10,000 had been expended; and there are outstanding requisitions which are estimated to cost $21,841; making a total of $31,841 obligated the first seven months of the year.

There are also in the hands of the editor five manuscripts which have been accepted, and which are estimated to cost $6,607, which makes a total of $38,408, or an excess over the appropriation of $90S.

In addition to those referred to, there are a number of other papers in the course of preparation by members of the staff, based upon the Museum collections, besides a very important paper entitled, ''The Flora of Utah and Nevada," by Ivan Tidestrom, which will have to go over until next year.

The Budget Bureau has made a reduction of over $10,000 in the total estimate of appropriation for the Institution for 1925. If then the Museum is charged with the proportionate loss, its appropriation will be only $35,000, which, of course, will be inadequate to publish even the papers prepared by the staff.

The following statement shows the situation in reference to the Bureau of American Ethnology:

Appropriation, printing and binding, 1924 $21, 000. 00

Balance from fiscal year 1922-23 .879. 17

Amount available 21, 879. 17

The estimated cost of publications completed during the present year for the Bureau of Ethnology:

Bulletin 40, part 2 $3, 197. 00

Bulletin 80 2, 566. 82

Bulletin 81 2, 374. 70

- $8, 138. 52 The estimated cost of publications in press:

Bulletin 78 $.3, 612. 72

Thirty-eighth annual report 9, 654. 00

Miscellaneous: Stationery and binding.. 279.03

13, 545. 75

21, 684. 27

Balance this fiscal vear 194. 90

Estimate, 1925, as passed by Budget $18, 500. 00

Estimated cost of work at the Government Printing Office not yet begun:

Thirtv-ninth Annual Report « $9, 293. 98

Fortieth Annual Report « 8, 543. 29

17, 837. 27

Balance for all other publications and bulletins to be submitted during 1924-25 662. 73

1 These have not yet been taken up, but were submitted in order that there would be no lack of material, it being recognized that it would be impossible to complete the report already in press.

In addition to these, the manuscripts of other bulletins have been approved and could be transmitted to the printer were funds available.

Thursday, February 28, 1924. AMERICAN HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION.

STATEMENTS OF DR. J. FRANKLIN JAMESON, DIRECTOR DEPARTMENT OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH, CARNEGIE INSTITUTION OF WASHINGTON, AND DR. HENRY BARRETT LEARNED, CHAIRMAN COMMITTEE OF PUBLICATION, AMERICAN HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION.

PRINTING.

Mr. Wood. Doctor, we will hear your statement in reference to the appropriation for printing for the American Historical Association.

Doctor Learned. I was here last year, Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the publications of the American Historical Association and you permitted us to say a few things in reference to the appropriation for the printing of the report of that association.

The American Historical Association is a subsidiary of the Smithsonian Institution, and last year we spoke, with your permission, with reference to this appropriation and we would like to say something more this year.

It occurred to me that perhaps Doctor Jameson might speak first as he has a brief scheme which will show you the comparative appropriations made for historical work by the United States Government and other Governments.

FUNDS FOR PRINTING OF ANNUAL REPORT.

Doctor Jameson. The appropriation for the American Historical Association's annual report was set at $7,000 when the first of such appropriations was made, in 1907. I was then president of the American Historical Association and came before the committee when Mr. Tawney was chairman, and an arrangement was made to set the figure at $7,000, because that provided for printing about as much as we had been having up to that time, which amounted to about 1,400 pages. At the present time $7,000 will not print much more than 1,000 pages. The reduced appropriation therefore hampers the association in the publication of its report, just as the Smithsonian Institution is hampered in the printing of its report by a reduced appropriation.

Mr. Wood. What do you publish ?

Doctor Jameson. The appropriation is for the printing of the annual report of the American Historical Association.

Mr. Wood. What do you put in your report ?

Doctor Jameson. That report gives the proceedings of the association and includes, first, some of the best papers and summaries of papers which are read at the annual meeting, and secondly, materials for history, such as the autobiography of Martin Van Buren, the correspondence of John C. Calhoun, and other material of that sort. Then there are a variety of reports on the archives of the States, which are practically inventories of their historical material.

The reduction made from $7,000, appropriated last year, to $4,600 which is included in the bill before you was made upon the basis of a mistake, which Doctor Learned is in a better position to demonstrate than I am.

I would like to say a word about two points. The first is this: Of all of the publications of the Government I do not know one that more directly reaches the people who are interested in it and who want to have it than this one, because the old printing act of 1902, besides providing for congressional distribution, allows 2,000 copies for the members of the American Historical Association, and the membership of that organization is about 2,700, and therefore the members are requested to state whether they want it or not, and so, like the Smithsonian Institution reports, the reports of the American Historical Association go only to those who express a desire for them. So the distribution of 1,700, 1,800, 1,900 or perhaps the whole 2,000 of those reports is to those who apply for them. So we are putting out a document where it is wanted, and not where it is wasted.

You have heard from Doctor Walcott and these other gentlemen that this publication is fifth or sixth in demand among the publications of the Government, so far as the records of the Superintendent of Documents show.

In the second place, I want to say a word about the general proposition of doing some printing for the history of the country. All that the United States Government does for the history of the United States, which I can trace in any appropriation of the present year or the preceding year, consists of this $7,000 appropriation for printing our annual report (which is made up by a committee of the most experienced of the members of the American Historical Association and is intended to be valuable historical material, which I think it has been) and an appropriation of $19,000 for the Navy Department for the publication of material respecting the late war. Evidently the War Department also has a branch which produces the military monographs that are printed, but that is not clearly traceable in an appropriation, so I am comparing things which are distinctly traceable in the appropriations here with things which are distinctly traceable in the appropriations of our States or of other countries.

EXPENDITURES OF FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS AND STATES.

If it had not been for war times and the results of the war, it would be easier to get exact data down to date with respect to other countries. The best I could do for 1922 and 1923 was to make an exhibit like that which is before you.

In the case of England I could not trace the appropriations, but I could trace the amount printed. On these charts the data in reference to all these countries are placed in comparison with our Federal history appropriations. This [indicating on chart] compares the historical matter published by the British Government with what is published by our Government: Great Britain in 1922, 5,600 pages; the United States, 2.S27 pages. I compare output because in the case of Great Britain I could not securely trace the amounts of appropriation or expenditure. In the case of France I could not find either the amount of expenditure or the number of pages of matter printed. But in the case of Germany, poor as it is, I know that the German Government has published in the last two years between three and four times as much documentary historical matter as the Government of the United States published.

Here [indicating chart] is a comparison of the expenditures for the historical establishments and publications of the Dutch Government and the Swiss Government, which is one of the most economical as well as one of the poorer countries, with the expenditures by the United States. It is a meager showing for the United States. Its $26,000 includes the $19,000 for the Navy Department and $7,000 for the annual report of the American Historical Association, which amount it is now proposed to cut down to $4,600. Switzerland spent $1(1.000 for such things, the Netherlands $178,000.

Here [another chart] is a comparison with a group of our States. In each case only those expenditures are included which the State makes for historical publications and for work in the archives by its commission or bureau which has charge of the historical interests of the State and the getting up of the historical volumes.

And. by the way, we of the American Historical Association get up these volumes for nothing. This appropriation is a mere credit at the Government Printing Office. Whatever is done in preparing these volumes for printing is done gratis by interested members of the American Historical Association. In other countries people are paid for doing that work.

Here [chart] is a group of States in the Northwest, some of them

Eaying more and some less, but most of them paying more for istorical publications than the whole United States Government pavs. That, as has been said, is $26,000. Ohio ($6,000), Indiana ($I;5,000), and Michigan ($21,930) are paying less.

The Illinois State Historical Library is the organization corresponding to commissions in other States: it takes charge of these historical publications: I have included in this tabulation for Illinois ($39,300) only what is for historical work. Thus Illinois and the other three northwestern States, through the Iowa State Historical Society ($44,500), the Minnesota commission and the Minnesota War Records Commission ($54,000), and the Wisconsin State Historical Society ($6S,900) all pay more for historical publications than the United States Government.

This statement is simply intended as an argument against reducing the sum which we now have, and which is little enough for the publication of historical data.

In this last chart I contrast the sixteen millions which the United States Government pays annually for scientific investigations and

publications with the $26,000 which it pays for historical publications.

If the Government of the United States takes any interest in its history and wishes the people of the United States to take an interest in its history, then it seems to me the appropriation of $7,000 for this purpose, apart from the appropriation tor the Navy Department, is a very small sum.

We hope it may be maintained. Why it was cut, Doctor Learned will be able to show much better than I. It was cut under a misapprehension.

REDUCTION EN PRINTING ALLOWANCE.

Doctor Learned. The committee understands that Doctor Jameson and I. coming in here, are trying to the best of our ability to represent an association of historical scholars, men and women, largely teachers, to some slight extent research workers, pretty close to 3,000 in number.

The members of the American Historical Association come from all the States of the Union and its outlying possessions, and there;are a number of Americans abroad who pay the annual dues of $5 to the association.

The work which we do in the way of publication, in these annual reports, makes a considerable appeal to teachers of history over the country, to publicists, to some extent to lawyers who have the historic point of view, and to men of affairs who are likewise interested in the history of their country.

I want to say that by way of introduction, so that you will understand what the American Historical Association, roughly speaking, is—a group of men and women, teachers, research workers, and what not, who are combined together, and have an annual meeting each year in one of the larger cities, usually in the East and occasionally in the West—in 1921 at St. Louis, in 1923 at Columbus, Ohio.

The printing and binding for the Smithsonian Institution as figured in the Budget report indicate that for the year 1923-24 the total amount granted was $77,400. The total amount granted or that mav be granted this year as stated in the unabridged volume of the Budget, is $70,000.

Last year the American Historical Association was allowed $7,000 out of $77,000 and this year out of $70,000 we are allowed $4,600.

In other words, we are reduced from $7,000 last year to $4,600 this year; in brief, we have lost $2,400. I do not pretend to know where the allocation of this sum was made, presumably by the head of the Smithsonian Institution, but at all events, we have $2,400 less for the forthcoming year 1924-25 than we had last year.

It is a question whether it is quite fair to reduce the American Historical Association about 33 per cent, when the institution itself loses only 10 per cent. We are reduced from $7,000 to $4,600, and the reduction in the total appropriation is only 10 per cent under the $77,000 last year.

That is the point which I want to get before you as clearly as I can.

Mr. Wood. Have you any information from the Budget with reference to what they had in mind, what they intended you should have in making up this allowance for the Smithsonian Institution?

Doctor Learned. We have no information from the Budget, sir. In fact, I think both Doctor Jameson and myself are in the dark as to how that matter was determined

This, I think, perhaps it would be fair to say. Last year the Budget granted us only $5,000. We appeared before your committee, and you were good enough to raise us to the original $7,000, which we have had, as Doctor Jameson has indicated, since 1907.

The Smithsonian Institution says, "We have reduced you only $400; we have reduced you from $5,000 last year (which, as a matter of fact, was $7,000) to $4,600," which is not quite in accordance with our facts as we have them. We have the privilege of drawing upon $7,000 this year.

You perhaps remember the incident. The error, according to the explanation that I have from the Smithsonian Institution, occurred in this wise: When they asked early in September, 1923, for the bills charged against the American Historical Association they were informed that the association thus far had had charged against it $3,623.21.

They therefore argued that as we had spent by September only approximately $3,600, it would be enough if they gave us for the forthcoming year $4,600.

As a matter of fact, at that time we had in galley proof a large volume of the Stephen F. Austin papers, filling practically two volumes, though nominally known as volume 2 of the report of 1919. The estimate at that time to complete those two volumes, known as volume 2, parts 1 and 2, of 1919, was $3,800.

So that, as a matter of fact, we have been charged this year $3,623.21. The estimated charges on volume 2, in process, are $3,800, making a total of $7,423.21, leaving us at the end of this year, on the 1st of July, with a possible deficit of $423.21.

With that deficit, we very much dislike to start the forthcoming year. 1924-25, with only $4,600, because the estimate of the work that we have ready or nearly ready to put into the Printing Office would amount to approximately $8,600.

In other words, the materials for our reports for 1920 are ready. The materials for the report for 1921 are ready, and the volume known as "Writings for 1922," a bibliographical volume, is in preparation. That makes a total of $8,600.

It cost us approximately $3,500 to get one single volume such as you see here out per year, at the present rates of cost of printing.

If, therefore, the next year's cost to us is $8,600, and we have only $4,600 with which to pay it, the deficit would be, as you can easily determine, approximately $4,000 on the 1st of July, 1925. In other words, there would be $4,000 worth of unfinished or suspended work on that date that would become a charge against the next year.

That is perhaps as much as I need to say about these figures. I should be very glad to answer any questions and make the matter any clearer, if I can.