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Mr. Colver. No..,

Mr. Murdock. We have milk.

Mr. Colver. There are a good many other things; then we have shoes and leather.

The Chairman. Suppose you put in the record, when you come to revise your remarks, a list of the investigations you are making and the amounts you have estimated will be required for each.

Note. —The material requested by the chairman was later supplied as follows:

The estimated expense of economic inquiries now pending in the commission are as follows: Farm implements, $20,000; grain trade, $40,000; food hoarding, $15,000; commercial feeds, $30,000; milk, $30,000; meat and perishable foods, $12,000; southern meat prices, $3,000; flour. $2,000; military food supplies, $2,500; basing points of steel products. $10,000; lumber, $5,000; coal,'$20,000; Wyoming oil, $6,000; general oil, $11,000; Pacific oil, $2,500; paper statistics, $8,500; tobacco, $2,000; shoes, $20,000: gauze, $500.

The above for the most part are investigations that have ^5een required of the commission and not undertaken of its own motion. They are for the most part "investigations" in the ordinary use of the word and none, except paper, of the character of ''gathering and compiling" data currently, as has been urged upon the committee by Acting Chairman Murdock and Commissioner Colver during the present hearings.

These figures do not provide for; the regular work of the economic department and, of course, the expenses of the Legal Division, which run about $300,000 a year, the Administrative Division, which runs about $200,000, the Export Division and Enemy Trade Division, are quite aside from these figures.' -

The chief significance of the figures are that they disclose the fact that before the end of the second month of the fiscal year some $240,000 have been pledged to work for the most part not optional to the commission. In addition it is necessary to carry forward the Economic Divisions' statistical arid computing branches, general expense, and routine operations.

In chawing a budget to meet the existing annual appropriation, the total operation of the Economic Division is limited to about $400,000 for the fiscal year.

Mr. Colver. We will do that, with the understanding that the things we have been talking for to-day are not sucr\"investigations" at all. We do not come here and suggest that we be allowed to investigate and report. We do suggest that the gathering and compiling of complete information, currently, for immediate use and public information is a much better enterprise. It is carried out in a public spirit on the part of the commission; it is carried in the desire to be helpful, not to investigate, not to be inquisitorial, not to find fault. That is a much better definition.

The Chairman. You have explained in detail what you expect to do with this fund you have asked for ?

Mr. Colver. Yes.

Tuesday, August 26, 1919. SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. DE C. RAVENEL, ADMINISTRATIVE

ASSISTANT.

National Museum. heating, lighting, etc., for the freer building.

The Chairman. You ha\e an item here for heating, lighting, ventilating:, electrical, and telephonic service for the Freer Building, $15,510.

Mr. Ravenel. The Freer Building, which will house the col]ections of American and Oriental art which were presented oy Mr. Freer

to tli'' Government through the Smithsonian Institution, is now ver\ nearly finished, and we will start to install the exhibits in that •milding some time during the present fall.

The Chairman. Where is that building?

Mr. Ravexel. Tt is soutnwest of the Smithsonian Institution. on the southwest corner of square bounded by Seventh. Twelfth, and B Streets NW. and 13 Street SW.

The Chairman. What is the size of the building!?

Mr. Ravexel. It has ;> irontage of 228 feet, a depth of 185 feet, and a heighth of 16 feet.

The Chairman. How many stories ?

Mr. Ravexel. It has ;i ground floor, basement; and main story.

The Chairman. How do yon heat it '.

Mr. Ravexel. We had expected t > heat it by steam.

The Chairman. Have you a steam plant for that building also \

Mr. Ravexel. We have all of the appliances there; that is, radiators, etc. We had. expected that this building would be heated from the general heating and lighting plant then under construction by the Treasury Department, and all plans were made for that purpose, as our steam plant in the new building, which heats the two museum ouildings and the Smithsonian was running up to fu.i capacity ', and could take n » further load.

The Chairman. Could you put another boiler in there?

Mr. Ravexel. "We could put two more boilers in there at a cost of about $20,000, and we expect to ask for that in the future; but for the present our plan is to utilize the large modern steam plant in the new building to capacity and then to put in commission the old steam plant in the old museum building.

The Chairman. What would be the occasion of putting in a new independent system for serving this building when you have a central plant there for the museums and the Smiths mum Institution ?

Mr. Ravexel. We have not done that. That in the old building is an old plant. It has been shut down ever since the new building was constructed.

The Chairman. You propose to utilize that old plant?

Mr. Ravenel. We hope to utilize the old plant for this year.

The Chairman. Have all of the connections been made \

Mr. Ravenel. It is all connected up as it stands. By operating the power plant in the new building at its full capacity heat and light can be furnished to all of the buildings, except during the four winter months, when it will be necessary to operate the plant in the old building for heating that building and, possibly, a part of the Smithsonian Building. All of these buildings are connected with the Smithsonian Building by tunnels in which are located the steam mains and electric conduits.

The Chairman. How far is the Freer Building situated from the building where the heating plant is located?

Mr. Ravenel. About 1,300 feet in all. It is 800 feet from the Smithsonian to the new building where the plant is located. We have a tunnel between them, and there is another tunnel connecting the Freer Building with the Smithsonian Building.

Employees, Coal, Etc.

The Chairman. You may give the details of your estimate.

Mr. Kavenel. In order to operate the two plants and also to provide the necessary men in the Freer Building to look out for the steam, electrical, and other services, it will be necessary to have one steamfitter, at $1,080; one electrician, at $1,200; one fireman, at $900; one assistant engineer, four months, at $100, $400; two firemen, four months, at $75, $600; two laborers, four months, at $55, $480; making a total of $4,660. Those prices are exclusive of the bonus allowed by Congress. We will require 700 additional tons of bituminous coal at a cost of $4,550. That is on the basis of $6.50 per ton, and I do not believe we will get it for that price, as we paid $7.19 per ton last year. There will also be required 500 tons of anthracite coal for the plant in the old building, and that we estimate at $12 per ton. Individuals are paying $12.50 per ton for it, but I suppose the Government will get it for a little less, but I do not know. That, with an allowance of about $300 to cover small matters like supplies for plumbing, electricity, etc., makes a total of $15,510.

The Chairman. Is the cost you have estimated here to heat this building the result of your experience in heating your other buildings \

Mr. Ravenel. It is the result of the experience of Mr. Denmark, our engineer, who has had charge of our plant since it was installed. He helped to design it, and he was the assistant to Dr. Woodridge, of Boston Tech. I think his estimates are very conservative.

The Chairman. Can you get laborers at those prices ?

Mr. Ravenel. We can get them for that if we can get them at all. We can not get a first-class assistant engineer for $100 per month, but we pay all the men we have $100 per month and can not afford to put in a new man for this purpose at a larger salary. The same thing is true of the electrician. You can not get an electrician for that amount, but you will get a wireman or something of that sort.

The Chairman. When did you say you expected to move into this building %

Mr. Ravenel. The building is nearing completion. I do not like to give a positive date, but we have torn down the stable in front and the fence goes down soon. The contractor says that it ought to be finished by October or November. We will have to start to heating it very soon.

Mr. Byrns. Where is this building located with reference to the New National Museum %

Mr. Ravenel. It is just southwest of Smithsonian, at the southwest corner of the block bounded by Seventh and Twelfth and B Streets SW. and NW.

Mr. Byrns. Is it south of the Mall?

Mr. Ravenel. It is on the south side of the Mall, just opposite the new Agricultural Building there.

Mr. Slemp. I was interested in your statement about having a furnace in another building, or heating this building from a furnace in the old building.

Mr. Ravenel. No, sir; we will not actually do that. We will use the old steam plant in the old building to help heat and light the buildings.

Mr. Slemp. Is the personnel that you have estimated Tor here additional personnel required for this building?

Mr. Ravenel. It is additional personnel, made necessary by the erection of this building. The three permanent men work in the Freer Building, and the others are required to operate the old plant in the old building (which has not been in operation for 10 years) for heating it, in order that steam heretofore furnished to the old building will be available for the Freer Building during four winter months. During the balance of the year the two museum buildings, the Smithsonian, and the Freer Building will all be furnished with heat and light from the plant in the New Museum.

Mr. Slemp. I did not know whether there 'was any overhead charge that should be charged to the other buildings being carried here?

Mr. Ravenel. It ought not to be. It ought to be charged to the Freer Building. That is the way we feel, because if we did not have to heat the Freer Building we would not ask for it. We have not had the old plant in operation for 10 years.

The Chairman. You estimate for a steamh'tter at $1,080. an electrician at $1,200, and a fireman at $900?

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Is that on an annual basis >.

Mr. Ravbnel. That is on an annual basis.

The Chairman. Of course, you will not have them for the whole year, and, therefore, you will not need all of the money for these three positions. You will not need the money for those three positions for the months of Jul}', August, and September.

Mr. Ravenel. This was made up last June. There could be a reduction for three months, but not for coal.

The Chairman. The others are put in on the basis of four months.

Mr. Ravenel. For four months.

The Chairman. Will you use the building by the 1st of November (

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir: the building is nearing completion, and we must have it heated and lighted. Their representatives came in day before yesterday to know what arrangements we were making for heating.

The Chairman. You think that a reduction can be made on account of the men?

Mr. Ravenel. Only on account of those three men.

Mr. Iyvgan. What will the Freer Building be used for?

Mr. Ravenel. To house the collection of American and oriental art that was presented by Mr. Freer, of Detroit. He has spent on this building now over 81,000,000, and he is giving it to the Government. He presented the collection 10 years ago, during the administration of President Roosevelt, and it was accepted by the regents of the Institution for the Government.

Mr. Byrns. Mr. Freer is constructing the building?

Mr. Ravenel. Y r es, sir: every expense is being borne by him. It is one of the most remarkable gifts ever made to the Government by a citizen of this country. It represents several million dollars and many years' work.

still more work to do. The peace treaty itself, whatever kind of treaty is finally adopted, is going to throw a great burden of work upon the State Department that it must discharge in some way or other.

Now, it is not going to cure the situation to provide a lot of stenographers and a lot of low-grade clerks. Every man in a position similar to that which I occupy is crowded beyond his physical capacity, because he has not enough responsible people under him to rely upon to take responsibility off his shoulders. Every assistant secretary is working at the department away after office hours, and every assistant secretary carries a brief case of work home with him every night, and I might say that substantially every chief of bureau and division in the department does exactly the same thing. In my own case, I myself have regularly worked at night. I do not say this in order to put it on record, but I have been working until 1 and 2 o'clock every night this summer. Of course, I can not continue to do that, and no other man can continue to do that.

The Chairman. Do I understand that instead of figuring $242,500, you are making a revision of your estimate and raising it to $457,800 ?

Mr. Carr. Yes, sir; and that is divided in this way: There are 11 at $4,500; 25, at $4,000; 22, at $3,500; 15, at $3,000; 15, at $2,500; making 88 in that list, at a total of $309,000. Then, in the case of the clerks, we have 15 of class 4; 20 of class 3; 25 of class 2; 20 of class 1; making a total of $118,000. Then, I have added a small amount for miscellaneous expenses, because it is obvious that you can not run a large force for the same amount that you can run a small force.

Now, I personally have gone at this thing as carefully as I know how. I have sought the best aid in the department that I could get to get at the facts, because that is what I have wanted to bring up here; and I know you want facts and not theories.

Passport Control Division.

The gentleman who made up this report says, with reference to the Passport Control Division, that they are working absolutely up to the maximum of their capacity; yet an order has just been issued removing restrictions upon travel, an order that nobody can criticize, which will mean that after the 1st of October any tourist who wants to go to Belgium, England, France, Italy, and so forth, may go if he can get transportation.

The Chairman. Mr. Carr," you asked for $250,000 in the sundry civil bill, as a deficiency for this year, for the Passport Division, and that was given to you. Now you are not asking anything further for that bureau, are you ?

Mr. Carr. We asked, Mr. Chairman, for $250,000 partly for the Passport Division and partly for other offices.

The Chairman. Is any of this estimate here to be used for the Passport Division ?

Mr. Carr. Part of this is to be used.

The Chairman. How much ?

Mr. Carr. I think something like 25 clerks.

The Chairman. My recollection is that when the matter was presented to the committee, the whole $250,000, or practically all of

it, was explained as being necessary for an additional force in that division, and, if it was not given you, you were going to discontinue the issuance of passports.

Mr. Carr. If you understood that from me, Mr. Chairman, then I did not make myself clear; for I never contended for a moment that all of that was going to be used for the Passport Division.

The Chairman. How much of it is being used for that division?

Mr. Carr. I could net tell you definitely.

The Chairman. I wish you would put in the record, when you come to revise your remarks, just how much of it is being used for that division.

Mr. Carr. I can tell you how many temporary people are em-employed there, I think. There are employed 134 temporary people, at a cost of $149,000. There are employed 25 statutory people at a cost of .134,000. And they are taking iii fees at the rate of $30,000 a month. This month they will issue probably 10,000 passports.

Mr. Slemp. Really, honestly, I can not see the slightest bit of use of that department there.

Mr. Byrns. They are making money.

Mr. Slemp. It is a tax on anybody who wants to travel. You might make the same proposition in every other department.

The Chairman. How near current is your passport work? In other words, how long does it usually take to get a passport through?

Mr. Carr. I think the}- usually issue passports now within two or three or four days after the application. It should be brought up closer than that; but of course, when a lot of tourists start abroad, there will be an enormous amount of additional work.

Mr. Slemp. You have the same identical request about the same information and all the details as if we were in war. You fill out the same blanks and you get the same proof of your citizenship just as- we had to do when we were in a contest with other countries. Now why should that be necessary '.

Mr. Carr. With this exception, that in time of war every onefof those applications was run down through all the secret-service agencies of the Government here and all the secret-service agencies of the allied Governments to be visited.

Mr. Slemp. Let us take a simple case. 1 go down here as a Member of Congress and I have quite a difficulty in establishing my nationality, my identity, and everything, and J have to prove it and to file a photograph and pay $2.

Mr. Byrns. No; a dollar.

Mr. Slemp. I paid Si' and have the receipt.

Mr. Carr. $2 for the passport.

Mr. Slemp. Now, just a mere request

Mr. Byrns. it is Si. I have sent too many down there with $1 attached and { have gotten them for $1.

Mr. Carr. I am thinking of the vise: SI for the application and Si for the vise.

Mr. Slemp. Now, what I am criticizing is the time taken by the force in just such cases as that. I said "What about the Secretary of War; do you treat him that way?" They said "Yes, we require the Secretary of War, when he goes to Europe, to have a passport." i went a step further. I said "Did you require all the soldiers, then, you sent over there, to have a passport ?" They said "No; but any-

For Repairs, Heating, etc., Temporary Structure for Exhibition of Aircraft, etc.

The Chairman. The next item seems to be an old friend.

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir; it is.

The Chairman. The next item is—

To enable the Regents of the Smithsonian to heat, and to fit up for an exhibition of the aircraft and accessories produced by this Government since the declaration of war, the temporary metal structure erected in the Smithsonian grounds by the War Department under the authority of public resolution No. 5, Sixty-fifth Congress, approved June 9, 1917, $14,000: Provided, That the Secretary of War is hereby authorized to transfer the custody and control of the said building to the Regents of the Smithsonian Institution.

You asked for that in the deficiency bill.

Mr. Ravenel. We sent it up to go into the sundry civil bill, but it came up too late to go into the sundry civil bill, and Mr. Sisson who conducted the hearing which I have here before me said that it had no business in the deficiency bill. Therefore, I do not know that it has ever had a hearing, although there is a printed hearing on the subject.

The Chairman. You may make such statement as you desire in regard to it. i Mr. Ravenel. In connection with the other war collections, the

Director of Aircraft Production offered to furnish the National Museum for permanent exhibition examples of everything connected with the Aircraft Service of the Army that was in production on the day the armistice was signed. That involved five types of the training, battle, and bomb planes, a number of engines, radio apparatus of all kinds and description, and, in fact, everything that belonged to that branch of the service. The Navy Department has also offered to furnish one of their flying boats and as much more material as s we required to make a complete exhibit of the results that were accomplished by that branch of the service. That does not relate to the historical part of aviation, but to the things that we had produced from the date that the United States entered the war; we expect also to exhibit in this building new types developed by the Government or private manufacturers, so that the exhibit would be kept up to date always or for a long time to come. The only building in the city adapted for that purpose is the temporary building built on Smithsonian land with the consent of the Smithsonian Institution. It was built with the express idea that the collections made by the > Aircraft Production Board would come to the Smithsonian Institution at the close of the war. It is a subject of the deepest interest to the public, and the expense involved there is comparatively small. The money required is principally for sheathing the building so that it can be heated. The building is of metal and will have to be sheathed and ceiled at an estimated cost of $6,000; $1,000 will be required for the floors and $2,000 for the roof; $4,400 for purchase and installation of radiators, piping, valves, and other fitting; and $600 for painting. The total cost is estimated at $14,000. We will heat it from our steam plant.

The Chairman. What is the size of that building?

Mr. Ravenel. That building, I think, is 240 feet by 60 feet.

135064—19 6

The Chairman. The resolution under which that building was erected provides that "The Secretary of War shall have such building or buildings removed from said grounds and the site thereof placed in as good condition as at present within three years from the date of the approval of this resolution." That resolution was approved June 9, 1917, and if that resolution is carried out it will be necessary to remove the building by June 9, 1920.

Mr. Ravenel. The point was this, that this is practically a fireproof building, and it is not worth anything for office purposes. They have had people in there, but it was really not a proper place for offices in summer on account of heat or in winter on account of the cold, but we can not get any building better adapted for the exhibition of this aircraft. Without undertaking to speak for them, I believe that it was the intention of the Regents to ask that the time for the removal of this building be extended until proper steps could be taken to provide for the exhibit permanently. Another point I want to emphasize about this exhibit is that unless we take it now we will never get it and we can not accept it unless we can use this building.

Mr. Cannon. What is that exhibit \

Mr. Ravenel. It is the material showing the aircraft that were in production by the Government on November 11 last, including engines, guns, radio apparatus—that is, everything pertaining to the Aircraft Service.

The Chairman. If this appropriation is made. Congress should turn this building over to the Smithsonian Institution, should it not \

Mr. Ravenel. It is on our land, and the Secretary of War is perfectly wdling that that should be done. As a matter of fact, the Institution expects to take charge of this building on the 1st of September, and the War Department could go on controlling it if there was any question involved, because they are going to furnish us the material; that is, the material will be furnished by the Army and the Navy. The building is not valuable for office rooms. It is not tit for office rooms for any department.

The Chairman. Is it the intention of the Smithsonian Institution to make a collection of guns and other war material for exhibition '.

Mr. Ravenel. Yes. sir. That is explained very fully in my testimony in connection with the sundry civil bill last year, and that has also been brought out in the annual reports. That is to be done in cooperation with the Army and Navy, and we will have a complete collection of practically everything pertaining to this war.

"r. Cannon. As I understand it, thi< will be a permanent exhi-bition in Smithsonian Institution of the various types of aircraft produced here during the war \

Mr. Ravenel. Yes, sir.

. Cannon. Don't you think the whole country would be better gratified if you forgot about the aviation construction?

The Chairman. You were explaining what you were doing in the way of collecting exhibits.

Mr. Ravenel. With the cooperation of the Army and Navy, under the direction of the General Staff, we have arranged to have examples of everything captured or acquired in any way from our enemies—-that is, examples of everything. It will show a most complete equipment of field artillery, except the very, largest guns that can not be

brought here. There will be guns, rifles, insignia, medals, persona relics, etc. We have to-day a large collection.

The Chairman. Where is that material stored ?

Mr. Ravenel. There is some in the Institution and some is stored in the old building. There will be no difficulty about that at alL W will use every place where we can make room for them. We want this collection to be valuable, not simply as a collection of curiosities, but to be an actual historical and scientific record of what was accomplished. For instance, if a man wants to know what was done in the matter of gas masks, we will have a complete collection of gas masks. We have samples of the gas masks made here, besides those used by the French, German, and other armies. We are working systematical^ in that same manner in connection with everything else. The collection includes the uniform of our own Army and of those of foreign countries. We have arranged a system of exchanges so that we will not have to pay for them in money. The Austialians and Canadians have offered to give us complete sets,of equipment for soldiers. We have also a most wonderful collection of paintings and drawings made by our artists who were sent abroad under the direction of the General Staff. Gen. March turned them over to us.

The Chairman. Have you adequate building facilities to house the exhibit of those things?

Mr. Ravenel. We do not claim that we have. We have not, but we are going to make the collection first so as to be sure of getting it. We have lost some things now on account of the demobilization. If we do not get them now we never will get them.

The Chairman. Referring again to the estimate of $14,000 that \f' you are asking for the aircraft exhibit, how much of that do you calculate will be required to put the building in condition ?

Mr. Ravenel. Practically all of it.

The Chairman. No part of it is asked for heating and lighting?

Mr. Ravenel. Not for the plant. It is for steam pipes, radiators, etc., in the building, but not for steam.

The Chairman. Approximately what will be the annual cost of upkeep ?

Mr. Ravenel. It ought to be very little. It is a very rough building. It is a metal building, and paint will represent practically the greatest cost.

The Chairman. You must be figuring on making some radical _^_£hanges, because the building originally cost only $20,000.

Mr. Ravenel. That is about what it cost. It is only a shell, and / we wish to line the inside of the building with some composition. We want to spend about $1,000 on the floor, and the lining will cost w .iibout $6,000. The balance is needed so we can heat and paint it.

The Chairman. When that building was originally erected, the regents made some objection to having it located there, and for that reason there was a time limit fixed when it should be removed. It was objected to because it was thought it would be a sort of eyesore.

Mr. Ravenel. I do not recollect that. They granted permission but Col. Ridley, in charge of Public Buildings and Grounds, according to my recollection, claimed that as the building was not being erected for Smithsonian it would be necessary to get the approval of Congress.

The Chairman. Is it an eyesore?

Mr. Ravenel. It works in very well with the trees and grass, as it is painted green. I would not like to see it there forever myself but it Avill tide us over for a number of years to come.

The Chairman. Do you wish to make any further statement in regard to this item ?

Mr. Ravenel. No, sir.

Mr. Cannon. I want to express my hearty approval of the collection you are making.

The Chairman. Have you a detailed statement there with regard to what you expect to use the $14,000 for?

Mr. Ravenel. I can furnish that.

The Chairman. When you come to revise your statement, put it in the record.

Radiators, piping, valves, and other connections and fittings J-4, 400

Weatherproonng side walls and ceiling 6, 000

Repairing and replacing flooring 1, 000

Repairing and painting roof , 2, 000

Painting and remodelling interior 600

i. ital 14, 000

International Exchanges.

The Chairman. You have another item, reading as follows:

The unexpended balances of the appropriations for the system of international exchanges, under the dire< lion of the Smithsonian Institution, for the fiscal years ending 1917 and 1918, are reappropriated for payment of expenses of the international exchanges for the fiscal year 1919.

Of course, that will have to be changed to read,"for the fiscal your 1920."

Mr. Ravenel. No, sir; we want it for 1919.

The Chairman. Will you have a deficiency '.

Mr. Ravenel. We will have a deficiency of about $1,600.

The Chairman. Under the law, the unexpended balance for the year 1917 would be covered into the Treasury, because more than two years would have elapsed.

Mr. Ravenel. That is true of 1917. This was sent forward on May 23.

The Chairman. What was the unexpended balance for the year 1918 \

Mr. Ravenel. i do not know, it was about $soo.

The Chairman. You have a real deficiency?

Mr. Ravenel. We have a real deficiency. We have $3,077 in cash not yet paid out, with liabilities amounting to $4,068. That makes a difference of over $1,500. When I was called here yesterday I asked about that, and Mr. Gass, who is familiar with the account, gave me this memorandum, i asked for a specific statement of it.

The Chairman. You may insert that statement in the record. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

International < tckanges, 1919, financial statement.

appropriation $35,000.00

Expended to Aug. 25, 1919 31, 922. 60

Balance Aug. 26 3. 077. 40

Estimated liabilities 4. 668. 00

Deficit 1.590.60

Aimmnt asked to be reappropriated 1. 591. 67

Estimated balance 1.07

The Chairman. The language as drawn now would not give you relief to the extent of permitting you to pay your liabilities.

Mr. Ravenel. It would give us about $800, leaving us about $700 short.

The Chairman. Suppose you make an inquiry of the Treasury as to whether or not the warrant for the unexpended balance for 1917 has been made out, and when you come to reAase your statement, state that fact in the record. If it is not made out, we could still take care of it in this way.

Mr. Ravenel. It was simply a question of asking for a deficiency, which, of course, we did not want to do if we could help it.

Note.— The Warrant Division of the Treasury states that although the unexpended balance of the appropriation for the international exchanges for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1917, was transferred on the books of that office to the surplus fund at the close of June 30, 1919^' It can be made available if reappropriated by Congress.

Note. —The item, as worded would therefore make available the balances for both 1917 and 1918.

Tuesday, August 26, 1919.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILBUE J. CARE, DIRECTOE OF THE CONSULAE SEEVICE.

Additional Employees_, Revised Estimates.

(See p. 95.)

The Chairman. Mr. Carr, you have the following estimate:

For additional employees during the fiscal year 1920, at annual rates of compensation, as follows: Officers to aid in important drafting work—11 at $4,500 each, 25 at $4,000 each, 22 at $3,500 each, 2 at $3,000 each, 4 at"$2,500 each, to be appointed by the Secretary of State, all of whom may be employed as chief of division of Far Eastern Division, Latin-American Division, Near Eastern Division, Division of Western European Affaire, or upon other work in connection with the foreign relations: in all, $242,500.

You have had for this purpose, for this fis\al year, $564,840. Was that appropriation allotted ?

Mr. Carr. It is statutory, and does not need to be allotted. It is not a lump sum.

The Chairman. No part of it is a lump sum \

Mr. Care. No, sir; no part of it is a lump sum.

The Chairman. Why are you asking for this deficiency appropriation ?

Mr. Carr. We are asking for an additional appropriation, Mi-. Chairman, and the reason we/are asking for it is this: I might say, if you will permit me, that a modification of this estimate is being submitted, and a letter has been written, but it has not yet gotten down here. The modification is based upon existing conditions at the present time, and it is going to increase, this estimate to $457,800. Now, the reason for that is this: If you will recall, I came before this committee in June with an urgent appeal for a fund for temporary employees to give us at least what we had last year. The committee finally"made us up to within $30,000 of what we had last year.

The Chairman. That was in the legislative bill?

Mr. Carr. That was in the sundry civil bill. We then felt that we were dangerously near or terribly near the danger line with that appropriation: but we have been getting behind and getting further behind with our work, until there have been constant appeals for additional help. They have been coming to me, but I had been unwilling to recognize them until the other day, when I said, "Before I will have anything to do with this estimate I must have a careful examination made of this department for the purpose of determining whether the people are working full time, whether they are working to the best advantage, and whether they are working overtime—in other words, whether it is a fact that it is due to bad management or to the lack of personnel." Now, Mr. Chairman, the report that was made—and I might say that the gentleman who did this is not a man who is doing a part of the regular executive work, because we were careful to avoid that

Mr. Slemp (interposing). What place do you occupy?

Mr. Carr. I am the Director of the Consular Service.

Mr. Slemp. Is this estimate in relation to the consular and diplomatic activities of the department?

Mr. Cabb. No, sir; my work is that of director of the Consular Service and such other duties as the Secretary may assign to me.

Mr. Slemp. I wanted to know whether it had any relation to the Consular and Diplomatic Service.

Mr. Cabb. N<>, sir: it is purely departmental, except as I shall mention in the course of these remarks. It is purely for the department itself, or for the departmental establishment in Washington.

Mr. Slemp. I would have supposed that the Chief of the Consular Bureau would have had charge of the investigation of matters rela-tive to the Consular Service.

Mi-. Carr. One of my unfortunate tasks is the preparation of estimates for Congress, the care of appropriations, etc.

The Chaibman. You have been acting as a sort of ambassador to ('ongress ?

Mr. Carr. I do not know whether it goes up to that point or not.

The Chairman. You may proceed with your statement.

Mr. Carr. Now, the report that we got of this examination covered each bureau and each person in the department. Every office in the department has been examined, and the report shows that the whole working force of the department has been working under what you might call forced draft for a very considerable length of time; that there are many of them who are pretty well worked out, or who are tired and worn out; that they are away behind with their work, notwithstanding the fact that 78 per cent of the force on which this is based have put in 1,500 hours and over per week of overtime. We compute that to be equivalent to 45 or 50 additional employees for the whole department. But that is not the whole story: A vast amount of constructive work which ought to be done and which is crying to be done is not being touched; a large amount of routine work which ought to be kept up to date is not being kept up to date, because it is just a physical impossibility for the force to do it. That might seem strange, because the natural thing to expect is that when the armistice was signed the work would fall off, but, instead of that, the work has increased. Then, as we go back to peace conditions, judging from the things that we can see now, we will have